MadMax
Active Member
^^ I agree...wholeheartedly!
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OLG Toronto/GTA casino proposal (where to put it?)
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ttk77
Senior Member
How about we build it over the rail yard at Union?
The air space over the tracks is wasted. You could attach it to Union station and the ACC. You could link it to the path and dozens of hotels and entertainment facilities. You could use it to create a new connection to the lake as well.
Actually, that isn't a half-bad idea. If it came down to a referendum I'd probably vote against a casino, but it would be a great way to make the province pay to reconnect our city with the lake. It's an area the city will never let turn into a slum. GO, subway and streetcar all converge on this spot, and like you said major hotel access. I doubt the province could ask for more in terms of the accessibility of the location. Make it conditional on building a large, beautifully designed, open-air pedestrian overpass connecting the two sides of the train tracks. Win-win?
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ttk77
Senior Member
Can you expand a bit on why you think we need to be careful about tying it to infrastructure improvements? I'm not sure I understand.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
ttk:
What I meant is that we shouldn't use the location of any proposed casino to dictate what/where infrastructure priorities are - and in particular the tendency to use these megaprojects to justify them. History at home and abroad is littered with examples of these types of follies. The merits of infrastructure projects must stand on its own.
AoD
What I meant is that we shouldn't use the location of any proposed casino to dictate what/where infrastructure priorities are - and in particular the tendency to use these megaprojects to justify them. History at home and abroad is littered with examples of these types of follies. The merits of infrastructure projects must stand on its own.
AoD
freshcutgrass
Senior Member
Ok...you say the Fords are your heros, so I should know better to even indulge....but get a grip on reality would you...a casino mightgenerate enough revenue clean the subway, but not even within a million miles of building and operating one.
I find that statistic refreshing. There's a giant flaw in your reasoning....it is not the government's job to encourage more gambling.
That's all i need....even more people taking up my valuable time effing around at the store counter with their 649 tickets and scratch & lose tickets.
Hey...why not promote smoking in schools and raise even more revenue!!!
freshcutgrass
Senior Member
Yea, and Vegas is the perfect example of how not to build a city. Now it's trying to become one...by looking to places like...I dunno...Toronto!! ha ha
Sorry, it doesn't work that way...you should try looking at actual data on the subject. Gambling is done with whatever discretionary income people have (and quite often with money they don't have). Every dollar that gets spent at a Toronto casino will be one less dollar spent on existing entertainment, food, retail shopping.
adma
Superstar
Y'know, I think Raquel is the sort who'd think that, casino function aside, this is better architecturally
than this.
than this.
dt_toronto_geek
Superstar
So Ford Nation does really exist!
I'm all for a casino downtown but it must be properly designed so that it serves the greater community from the exterior. It should not be along the lake (unless Ontario Place is used temporarily until it re-opens) and all parking for the casino/casino hotel(s) must be in the form of underground parking levels so no sprawling parking lots.
I'm all for a casino downtown but it must be properly designed so that it serves the greater community from the exterior. It should not be along the lake (unless Ontario Place is used temporarily until it re-opens) and all parking for the casino/casino hotel(s) must be in the form of underground parking levels so no sprawling parking lots.
neubilder
Banned
Hmmm, Toronto casino, where to put it...now let me see.... Hey Rob can you step over here for a second....this is gonna be ugly but here'goes.
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TonyV
Senior Member
I am finding the debate so predictable. Bores like Michael Gee posturing against the casino because he wants to preserve the last vestiges of "Toronto The Good" and whatnot. Give it a rest, Mr. Gee. Toronto The Good is mercifully 100% gone already. (We, ahem, have terrace restaurants everywhere).
I wish Toronto had the stones to tell the Ontario government exactly this: that proceeds from a casino here should be dedicated to transit infrastructure alone, OLG be damned. But Toronto doesn't have the authority, neither does it have the political will to usurp the authority.
People will gamble, and if they can't do it here, they will do it elsewhere. I won't do it, but I can accept that others will. Better make room for it.
I wish Toronto had the stones to tell the Ontario government exactly this: that proceeds from a casino here should be dedicated to transit infrastructure alone, OLG be damned. But Toronto doesn't have the authority, neither does it have the political will to usurp the authority.
People will gamble, and if they can't do it here, they will do it elsewhere. I won't do it, but I can accept that others will. Better make room for it.
Tulse
Senior Member
I'd like to see an analysis of the full economics of a casino. As I see it, the province is dangling the lure of cash at the city, when in fact it is the province that stands to gain the most economically, and all the potential problems (such as increased crime) will be borne by city social services. It looks like a ruse to me.
Are there any actual studies that quantify how well the existing casinos have worked out for the cities? I'm very dubious of their alleged value when no one seems to be able to point to such work.
Are there any actual studies that quantify how well the existing casinos have worked out for the cities? I'm very dubious of their alleged value when no one seems to be able to point to such work.
js97
Senior Member
A casino is simply a tax on the poor and risk loving individuals.... There is very little overall social benefit.
Torontovibe
Senior Member
I have yet to see an area in North America where a new casino created a pedestrian friendly environment or a great tourist area. I had high hopes for Niagara Falls but even there, the casino did not help to create a fun, lively district. It's pretty dead around the new casino. Thankfully, Clifton Hill was already fully developed with it's tacky attractions, so it already had its tourist draw but even there, the casino seems to have taken away some of the liveliness. (or maybe it's just the drop in tourism to NF) Both Vegas and Atlantic City are pretty bad but in different ways. A casino would be the worst thing that could happen to Ontario Place. At the very least, I'd prefer McGuinty just left it as open parkland, if he is not up to the job of a proper redevelopment.
TonyV
Senior Member
I absolutely agree that casinos make poor neighbourhoods. The question is still out there as to where to put one, and I don't wish one at the Ex or Ontario Place anymore than you do. It is also argued (probably accurately) that casino tourists are not the ones who will go downtown and spend money, but we get that type of tourist already. I don't mind, for one second, the potential "revenue" that gamblers would contribute, if, let's say, all their money went into a hole in the ground, meaning subway tunnels (some fat chance of that happening, though; it is OLG that is pushing for this casino). As I said -- gamblers will find a place to gamble and I am not in the mood to save them.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Is it a causal relationship - that casinos make poor neigbourhoods? Or is it that casinos, because of the real and potential impacts, are sited at poor neighbourhoods that are least equipped politically to oppose them?
AoD