Dandy Horse
Active Member
on one of the grassy, hard to access areas between the highways at Eglinton, 401 & 427. that way, none of the casino going people will be able to venture into our neighbourhoods and make us sad.
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OLG Toronto/GTA casino proposal (where to put it?)
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adma
Superstar
Woodbine is already practically like that.
BurlOak
Senior Member
Are you suggesting 6 different referenda for Toronto - one for each former borough. The last time I checked, Scarborough is part of Toronto and not a surrounding Municipality.
neubilder
Banned
What I would like to know AoD, is why you are a staunch supporter of a casino in Toronto, and on the waterfront nonetheless?
TOareaFan
Superstar
As much as I dislike referenda.....linked/multiple issue votes are even worse.
So, is a "yes" a yes for a casino or a yes for a DRL? Is someone who wants a DRL but hates casinos forced to plug their nose and vote "yes" to get their DRL?
Governments are elected to make decisions not have mini-elections on big decisions.....but if they feel they must have a referendum.....keep it simple "Casino - yay or nay"
MadMax
Active Member
No, just Toronto. The other municipalities don't need one. They have leaders who are actually in tune with whats going on and open to haearing out the benefits and potential drawbacks a casino may have. Toronto's councillors make rash judgements before they've even received all of the data to make an informed decision a la Adam Vaughn. God, the city can't make decisions on anything, not the waterfront, transportation, casinos...hell we won't even let street vendors sell anything but hot dogs and french fries...it's pretty embaressing what's going on in city hall actually.
TOareaFan
Superstar
I think the point was that you grouped Scarborough with Mississauga as if each were similarly governed. Any "Toronto" referendum would include Scarborough but would not include Mississauga.
MadMax
Active Member
Yeah my bad...Scaborough would be a part of the vote as well.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
neubilder:
Because I can't wait to donate my life savings to OLG, and in the process bringing DRL to the casino and saving Ontario from the $16B deficit? I don't know how you view things, but there is a bit of a difference between saying that bringing a (one, singular) casino to an appropriate site somewhere along the waterfront, with an eye on how the facility engages its' surroundings might not be a disaster from being a "staunch supporter" - as if I have a personal vested interest in the whole affair. I humoured you this time - but since when do I need to justify my personal stance for your benefit, above and beyond the various arguments I had already put forth in this thread?
AoD
Because I can't wait to donate my life savings to OLG, and in the process bringing DRL to the casino and saving Ontario from the $16B deficit? I don't know how you view things, but there is a bit of a difference between saying that bringing a (one, singular) casino to an appropriate site somewhere along the waterfront, with an eye on how the facility engages its' surroundings might not be a disaster from being a "staunch supporter" - as if I have a personal vested interest in the whole affair. I humoured you this time - but since when do I need to justify my personal stance for your benefit, above and beyond the various arguments I had already put forth in this thread?
AoD
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TrickyRicky
Senior Member
"Casino - yay or nay"
TOareaFAN, the trouble with a referendum is that the outcome is entirely determined by the question. I don't think "Casino - yay or nay" gives enough information. For instance if the question hypothetically was:
-"Casino - yay or nay" I would vote yay. The majority of Toronto would vote nay
-If the question was "do you support a casino at Ontario place" I would vote nay.
-What if the question were "Every major city in Canada already has at least one casino, and a casino will be built in Mississauga anyways if you vote nay. OLG already operates gambling facilities at Woodbine and all we would be adding is table games to the mix. The expansion plan would cost 3-4 billion dollars and generate thousands of jobs and investment in a struggling section of the city. Gambling has already been on-going at this facility for generations. Do you support this expansion plan yay or nay?
TOareaFAN, the trouble with a referendum is that the outcome is entirely determined by the question. I don't think "Casino - yay or nay" gives enough information. For instance if the question hypothetically was:
-"Casino - yay or nay" I would vote yay. The majority of Toronto would vote nay
-If the question was "do you support a casino at Ontario place" I would vote nay.
-What if the question were "Every major city in Canada already has at least one casino, and a casino will be built in Mississauga anyways if you vote nay. OLG already operates gambling facilities at Woodbine and all we would be adding is table games to the mix. The expansion plan would cost 3-4 billion dollars and generate thousands of jobs and investment in a struggling section of the city. Gambling has already been on-going at this facility for generations. Do you support this expansion plan yay or nay?
TOareaFan
Superstar
If what you are saying is that the majority of the people would oppose a casino irrespective of where it is located and that the size of the majority grows if it was further proposed that it be at OP...then why bother....just say "no" now.
I have no problem (if we must have referendums - which, as I said, I don't think is true) with longer preambles to the question but, in the end, to get full value out of the exercise the question posed must be clear.....the above is not. So, I could see a question like this:
Preamble:
The OLG is the provincial agency who adminsiters/controls the business of gambling in the Province. As a Provincial initiative, the OLG has announced a plan to grow their business and build new gaming facilities around the Province. They have announced publicly that they are desirous of locating a facility in the Greater Toronto Area which includes, as a possible site, the City of Toronto.
By way of this referndum, the City of Toronto is asking its registered voters for guidance on certain matters as it relates to OLG's expansion plans for the Greater Toronto Area.
Please answer the following questions:
1. Are you in favour of a full gaming facility ("casino"), including slot machines, black jack tables, poker tables, roullete wheels, sports gambling and other related gambling, and non-gambling, activities as the OLG sees fit.
Yay or Nay
2. Irrespective of your answer to #1, if the majority of Torontonians (NOTE "majority" would be a pre-defined term and not neccisarily a 50% +1 situation) decide in favour of accepting a casino AND City Council votes in favour of seeking such a casino AND the OLG subsequently selected Toronto as a prefered municipality for a new casino please assign a ranking to the following locations indicating your prefernce (1 assigned to your most prefered, 2 to your next prefered, and so on.)
Alphabetic List of possible locations
something like that might work (of course, lawyers would have to get involved to write the final thing).
That, however, is as "mixed" as I can see an effective and meaningful referendum being. Any attempt to include other matters (like the DRL idea I responded to above) would just overly cloud the result and allow some politician too much room to spin the result however they chose.
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neubilder
Banned
You don't (need to humour me), but this is a public forum and I posed the question. I just find it baffling how someone who is seemingly intelligent could take your position.
TrickyRicky
Senior Member
TOareaFan, I was just throwing out ideas of how a referendum question is all about the question itself. When you throw out questions like "Casinos yay or nay" you get results that lead to outcomes like alcohol prohibition in the US. If there was a clear plan articulated for the project and location it would be a much more meaningful and representative result. It's like asking Torontonians Subways yay or nay? Saying subways yay should not be taken as a mandate to build a subway to no-where. Saying yay on casinos shouldn't be a mandate to build a casino anywhere either. Put to a simple binary referendum question we would probably have a moratorium on the majority of activities in a liberal democracy.
Torontovibe
Senior Member
I heard Mamolitti saying he thinks Ontario Place would be a good place for the casino. So he wants to turn the islands into a red light district and Ontario Place a casino. What's he gonna do to Harbourfront, turn it into the world's largest porn studio? (with him as the camera man)
This A-hole obviously has not studied what happens to neighbourhoods that build new casinos. They don't become great urban districts.
This A-hole obviously has not studied what happens to neighbourhoods that build new casinos. They don't become great urban districts.
adma
Superstar
"Yeah, man, but Ontario Place ain't no neighbourhood. It's sealed away from any neighbourhood by the Lakeshore, by the CNE by the Gardiner, by Coronation Park, bla bla bla..."