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OLG Toronto/GTA casino proposal (where to put it?)

Oh yeah... And Ontario Place, The Ex and Woodbine are all buzzing with activity...dream on Adam. The Holier than Thou persona does suit you though haha...
 
Ontario's finance minister wagers that a casino along Toronto's waterfront would be a cash bonanza
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Uh...for whom?

Hint: The provincial finance minister & the OLG aren't interested in a "cash bonanza" for the City of Toronto's coffers.


"Forty-odd flights will leave Toronto this week to go to Vegas or Atlantic City," he said.
But those gambling dollars could instead be poured into the local economy.
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And how much do you want to bet there will still be "forty odd flights" to Vegas and Atlantic City even after there is a Toronto casino.

And those gambling dollars will not be poured into the local economy.

"Golden Mile" ha ha ha
 
How about we convert Metropolis (or whatever it's called now) to a casino.
Now it looks like a movie set cast off from "Blade Runner".

It's right on dundas square, tonnes of hotels and restaurants in the area. Could be a great spot for an urban amusement park (as had been suggested previously). It's not like this location will become any seedier as a result.

A casino is wasted on the lake since so few will ever look out a window to appreciate the view.
 
jaycola said:
How about we convert Metropolis (or whatever it's called now) to a casino.
Now it looks like a movie set cast off from "Blade Runner".

It's right on dundas square, tonnes of hotels and restaurants in the area. Could be a great spot for an urban amusement park (as had been suggested previously). It's not like this location will become any seedier as a result.

A casino is wasted on the lake since so few will ever look out a window to appreciate the view.
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Not arguing for (or against) a lakefront casino but I wonder how the statement I bolded is much different from many buildings already at the Ex? Ricoh? DirectEnergy Centre? BMO Field? Whatever we call the Automotive building now? Aren't they all inward looking buildings/uses which attract people for a specific purpose and then watch them leave?

There may be many reasons to oppose (or even support) a Casino at/near the waterfront but the "inward looking" building has not resonated with me at all.
 
"Forty-odd flights will leave Toronto this week to go to Vegas or Atlantic City," he said.
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It's funny he doesn't say anything about Rama or Niagara Falls.

And just how much has the casino at Niagara produced fountains of wealth for that city?
 
Aahhh, hotels, restaurants, foot traffic, tourists, thousands of jobs... Yeah who needs all of that. I think people are sometimes naive and believe what others merely tell them. The two casinos in Niagara wouldn't be up in arms if it didn't mean that much to that city and it's residents.
 
I think people are sometimes naive and believe what others merely tell them.
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Couldn't agree more.


The two casinos in Niagara wouldn't be up in arms if it didn't mean that much to that city and it's residents.
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Since they are the second largest employer in Niagara, I can see why, and with diminishing "customers" and revenues, and the threat of a Toronto mega-casino poaching even more business, NF is a cautionary tale as to why you don't pin your hopes on casinos.

How many times does this scenario need to be played out for people to clue in?
 
I agree with you freshcut...you don't put all of your eggs in one basket. Unfortunately Niagara Falls didn't have much choice in the matter, with a fledgling economy, no industry and high un employment they had to make that move. The consequences would have been a U.S. style NF where real estate prices are the lowest in all the U.S. because nobody wants to live there. Fortunately though Toronto has many different and diverse baskets to put its eggs in. It would merely be a part of our city, not it's distinguishing feature. Complimentary for lack of a better word.
 
MadMax said:
I agree with you freshcut...you don't put all of your eggs in one basket. Unfortunately Niagara Falls didn't have much choice in the matter, with a fledgling economy, no industry and high un employment they had to make that move. The consequences would have been a U.S. style NF where real estate prices are the lowest in all the U.S. because nobody wants to live there. Fortunately though Toronto has many different and diverse baskets to put its eggs in. It would merely be a part of our city, not it's distinguishing feature. Complimentary for lack of a better word.
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Absolutely, no two cities are identical so direct "city to city" experience comparisons are not, often, possible/useful. Certainly, there is very little comparison between the Toronto and NF economies that lead to the belief that any impact (positive or negative) of a casino in Toronto will have the same relative importance in Toronto as NF.

There does seem to be (for some reason) a bit of urgency at Queen's Park to locate a GTA casino......so Toronto not being able to reach a consensus on this decision just may make the decision for them. While they are not talking Hamilton, I can't help but be more and more convinced that this is headed towards VCC (or whatever they are calling the end of the Spadina Subway now).
 
If casinos are such obvious money-makers, it should be easy to quantify their economic impact. Can anyone point to actual studies that document their financial benefit?
 
I know there are certain individuals here that put the fear of god into many to think that a Casino will destroy the Toronto that we know, but come on.... surely one Casino cant be any worst than hundreds of future legal bordellos that will pop-up everywhere in the city, Gee its just another part of the puzzle of Toronto growing up into world class classification...We been outsiders looking in for way to long and its time, all you have to do is look around.
Like in the past, (Olympics, Worlds Fair, Grand Prix racing, etc.) i hope we dont snooze and lose on this one.

Casino has suitors if spurned by Toronto
If Toronto city council turns down the chance to have a casino, at least half dozen other municipalities in the region are game, sources say.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...suitors-if-spurned-by-toronto/article2393725/

Ontario Finance Minister Dwight Duncan said the mayors of Mississauga, Markham and Hamilton have all made public statements in favour of a casino in their community. Others have expressed interest, but Mr. Duncan is unwilling to name names.
 
MadMax said:
Aahhh, hotels, restaurants, foot traffic, tourists, thousands of jobs... Yeah who needs all of that. I think people are sometimes naive and believe what others merely tell them. The two casinos in Niagara wouldn't be up in arms if it didn't mean that much to that city and it's residents.
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Given that Toronto has four new five star hotels about to kick in, new hotels in Southcore, new hotels on Yonge; a ridiculously vibrant restaurant scene, and plenty of tourists, I don't really see how the ancillary benefits are germane to the conversation. The question, really, is whether the casino on its own is good or bad for Toronto.

Atlantic City's beachfront was relatively residential when the casinos took over from the boardwalk as the biggest game in town, and those neighbourhoods are very, very bleak. Slums. The casinos offer zero benefit to a residential neighbourhood, much like the way the Eaton Centre sucked the life off of Yonge for years & years -- they are designed to keep people inside.

However, who cares if the site is already 'inward-facing', like the Ex or OP, as has been pointed out. A permanent casino at the Ex, as opposed to the current arrangement which keeps the place afloat, would make sense IF the CNE/OP got a decent slice of the profits and could use that cash to rehabilitate their infrastructure, I would support a casino there.

BTW -- to the person that said the Ex grounds is dead, you obviously don't go there often. Due to shows in the Direct Energy and Car Barn, games at the Ricoh and BMO, the Queen Liz, Medieval Times, and all the weddings, etc. at Liberty Grand (and throw in Muzik(?), Horse Palace, etc.), the Ex is hopping every Saturday when I take my daughter to ride. Ontario Place is dead outside the summer (and particularly this year, of course), but the CNE grounds are very busy year round. If they can get the cash to do their 'disguise the parking lots' renovation by greenlighting a casino, I'm OK with it. People gamble. The city might as well benefit.
 
Riverdale Rink Rat said:
Atlantic City's beachfront was relatively residential when the casinos took over from the boardwalk as the biggest game in town, and those neighbourhoods are very, very bleak. Slums. The casinos offer zero benefit to a residential neighbourhood, much like the way the Eaton Centre sucked the life off of Yonge for years & years -- they are designed to keep people inside.
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I was under the impression that Atlantic City's beachfront nabes were already bleak and slummy at the time the casinos took over--the victim of more attractive jet/interstate-age vacation destinations and generic 60s/70s-style urban decline. (And ditto with certain other old-school beachfront resort zones in that part of the US: Asbury Park, Coney Island, etc.) Of course, from an urbanistic standpoint, the casinos didn't help...
 
adma said:
I was under the impression that Atlantic City's beachfront nabes were already bleak and slummy at the time the casinos took over--the victim of more attractive jet/interstate-age vacation destinations and generic 60s/70s-style urban decline. (And ditto with certain other old-school beachfront resort zones in that part of the US: Asbury Park, Coney Island, etc.) Of course, from an urbanistic standpoint, the casinos didn't help...
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Quite possible you're right, adma. I saw AC for the first time in the mid-'80s, and the casinos were already there.
 
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