Richard White
Senior Member
Just stay away from room 237 ?
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Novel Coronavirus COVID-19 (nCoV-2019)
- Thread starter AlvinofDiaspar
- Start date
Just stay away from room 237 ?
Jasmine18
Senior Member
Well now it's to late as community spread is common.
However we should taken more action on self isolation of travellers from the start.
It's just a lesson we have learned from this.
Like people praise hk.Korea Singapore Taiwan...they did not shut everything down but they took some harsh measures on travellers.
Makes more sense then doing nothing much and then crashing the economy after where millions now need ei.
Like is mandatory self isolation really fascists compared to allowing community spread and what we have now?
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Jasmine18
Senior Member
@Northern Light
Also India is different...highly doubt the govt can lock down rural areas but they are blocking roads and shut planes and trains from cities to villages.
My village is not lockdown but you cant leave the area to the city and they cant come in. So risk of disease spreading gets reduced dramatically.
Also India is different...highly doubt the govt can lock down rural areas but they are blocking roads and shut planes and trains from cities to villages.
My village is not lockdown but you cant leave the area to the city and they cant come in. So risk of disease spreading gets reduced dramatically.
salsa
Senior Member
Stories like this piss me off.
This Toronto restaurant owner was delivering food to families in need during the COVID-19 crisis. He ended up with a $400 towing bill
Sugo’s owner Conor Joerin was packing supplies into a van on Bloor Street when he was tagged and towed for parking illegally during rush hour.www.thestar.com
I don‘t care if you were delivering insulin to duflet-induced diabetes; don’t park illegally. Instead plan ahead. You’re lucky I don’t run parking enforcement in this province, as I would have illegally parked cars (and especially courier and shredder trucks) seized and auctioned.
With almost everything shut down these days, finding parking downtown has never been easier. There's really no excuse.
South Korea currently has a rate of 176 infected people/1M. That high number I believe is a reflection of aggressive testing. But it is higher than the UK or even the US.
India was looking good according to the data, but according to a report I saw, they weren't testing, and you don't get data if you don't test.
The numbers on worldometer or on the WHO site tell a story, but not the whole story. There isn't a standard when it comes to testing or reporting. Some countries weren't including those with other health conditions as covid19 deaths, for example. Some countries simply aren't submitting their data. It's going to be a while before we get a clearer picture of all of this.
I think it's far too early to give kudos to any country at this point, because we simply don't know the true picture.
India was looking good according to the data, but according to a report I saw, they weren't testing, and you don't get data if you don't test.
The numbers on worldometer or on the WHO site tell a story, but not the whole story. There isn't a standard when it comes to testing or reporting. Some countries weren't including those with other health conditions as covid19 deaths, for example. Some countries simply aren't submitting their data. It's going to be a while before we get a clearer picture of all of this.
I think it's far too early to give kudos to any country at this point, because we simply don't know the true picture.
Jasmine18
Senior Member
That is true..
However knowing how India is like and how densely populated is what other option do they have a part from doing a full lockdown?
Even 10% of the population getting sick there is 130 million people and maybe million or.more deaths.
Like when the Spanish Flu hit india in 1919 17 million Indians died ?
Northern Light
Superstar
I am not from India, I was not born there, but yes, I am very familiar with it. And not just from maps or documentaries, LOL
Some of us are careful when we speak to make statements we can support.
Just so we're clear ( I know I'm repeating myself and apologize to those who read my posts); the epidemiological evidence indicates the majority of the human race will be infected with this virus at some point in the 10-14 months.
Virtually no action we can take will change that.
For the vast majority of those infected, this disease will not produce any symptoms.
For others it will be minor.
And for a small, but not insignificant minority, it will be serious, and potentially fatal.
The purpose of this action is not to avoid infection; its to slow the spread, and even-out the volume of serious cases such that local healthcare systems can cope.
That's what overwhelmed Wuhan for a time; and now Northern Italy.
Action is warranted. We do want to save lives.
But there is need to have some sense that brutal actions also cost lives.
Not 1 or 2, tragic as that may be; but many thousands or more.
One must strike an intelligent balance.
One must know that most people will get infected regardless.
What you're hoping to do is make that something that can be coped with better.
That may require (likely has and will) fairly severe action, for a time.
But one should never be happy about that; nor craving it.
One should never fail to realize in saving some lives, you are taking others.
We need evidence-based policy, not panic-based policy.
We also need to be mindful that the evidence is now clear, that in Wuhan, in Italy and in New York, restrictions on movement, including the closure of schools likely accelerated serious infections rather than reducing them.
We sent young children who carried infection, but were asymptomatic, home. Home to be with parents and grandparents who were much more vulnerable, particularly with long-term exposure to the virus.
Haste can make for terrible consequences.
Jasmine18
Senior Member
Thing is if you let everyone get infected all at once people who won't normally die will die. As i said even if 10% of India got the virus in a few weeks it would kill millions.
Also, the evidence-based policy 2 weeks ago that closing borders was not needed, now we have the strictest border requirements of the western nations.
What i mean no one knows what is right or wrong 100%, not me or you or anyone here.
However, i am not sure how keeping tabs on people who should be self-isolating from travel is the brutal policy that may cost lives.
By not doing so we will have to take increasingly 'brutal actions' it seems. India is a perfect example, they were not taking Coronavirus seriousily at all.
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Johnny Au
Senior Member
From Wendover Productions:
salsa
Senior Member
I bet Trump will follow suit.
Northern Light
Superstar
You're making this either/or. I fundamentally disagree with that premise.
This is not a case of choosing between isolating no one, and taking no measures to 'flatten the curve'; both of which should clearly be done, or sending troops/armed cops into the street to mind everyone's business, and in so doing forcing people to stay home with older relatives who they will infect and kill at home.
Its about protecting the vulnerable and slowing the spread, while understanding we will mostly all get infected over the next year or so; and not freaking out about it, as for most it will be a minor medical condition if one at all.
Its about yes to doing something, lots of somethings, but not anything.
I'm more than prepared to support measures to flatten the curve and am abiding by those myself.
I'm fortunate that I mostly work from home as it is, so its less of a burden for me than many.
But I find it distasteful and worrisome to see others express unbridled enthusiasm for the state suppressing all rights, without even the assurance that such measures will produce any demonstrable benefit beyond voluntary compliance.
Evidence-based policy, with sufficient assertiveness to be effective, but no more than is required.
Prince Charles tests positive for novel coronavirus
Prince Charles, Queen Elizabeth II's son and the heir to the British throne, has tested positive for coronavirus and is now self-isolating in Scotland, his office announced Wednesday.
www.cnn.com
Northern Light
Superstar
Here's a piece in the New York Times from a Yale-based Medical Doctor and public health/disease prevention specialist.
His take on this, published 5 days ago (so with a lower US death toll) mirrors mine in many respects. I would tend to side with somewhat more restrictions, but his concerns are similar to my own.
He expresses concern that the current measures aren't focused to deliver the best overall outcome.
www.nytimes.com
His take on this, published 5 days ago (so with a lower US death toll) mirrors mine in many respects. I would tend to side with somewhat more restrictions, but his concerns are similar to my own.
He expresses concern that the current measures aren't focused to deliver the best overall outcome.
Opinion | Is Our Fight Against Coronavirus Worse Than the Disease? (Published 2020)
There may be more targeted ways to beat the pandemic.
Jasmine18
Senior Member
The issue is that early steps are needed that are rather aggressive against high risk people (travellers and etc).
It makes more sense to be aggressive on a small group then not do much and then restrict rights to everyone.
That is the core argument i am making.
I would say based on Italy and Spain if nothing is done they likely be having some insane death tolls it seems. So they have to lock people down now or else it be a massive disaster then its now.
It makes more sense to be aggressive on a small group then not do much and then restrict rights to everyone.
That is the core argument i am making.
I would say based on Italy and Spain if nothing is done they likely be having some insane death tolls it seems. So they have to lock people down now or else it be a massive disaster then its now.
Northern Light
Superstar
In keeping with the above:
This is a Covid-modeling exercise out of Oxford University. It suggests the infection rate in most highly affected countries is already over 60%
Worth a read for those that can follow science, and math-nerd models. Suggests deaths are a lagging indicator.
www.dropbox.com
I would caution that this is a draft, and model; just as other models discussed have not been established as fact yet. They should be considered, and weighed, but not taken as absolute fact.
This is a Covid-modeling exercise out of Oxford University. It suggests the infection rate in most highly affected countries is already over 60%
Worth a read for those that can follow science, and math-nerd models. Suggests deaths are a lagging indicator.
Dropbox - File Deleted - Simplify your life
www.dropbox.com
I would caution that this is a draft, and model; just as other models discussed have not been established as fact yet. They should be considered, and weighed, but not taken as absolute fact.