Next Mayor of Toronto?

[Torontovibe]

Then why is it so hard to get an good answer (other than he learned from that)? You guys are voting for Smitherman, no? You must have a reason, right? If Smitherman's record is as good as you guys claim it is, then what's the harm of repeating it? Wouldn't more people convert to Smitherman when they heard what a good job he did?

And why is it when somebody is calling Ford a supervillan over and over again, you got no problem?

I haven't seen too many people calling Ford a "supervillian". I see them calling him fat, which is the least of what bothers me about Ford. With all the legitimate concerns about Ford, nobody has to stoop to that level but it's an easy laugh, so they do. It's pointless but people do have legitimate complaints against Ford. Beyond what he has done or not done, my main concern is the man's character.

For me personally, I am voting for Smitherman because I believe he will be in the best position to defeat Ford. I have not seen enough information to make an informed decision about E Health or any of the other major issues his detractors mention.(Do we really know what happened and why?) We all know how little truth there is when dealing with politics and all the spin that goes on. We are constantly lied to (about everything) and manipulated with misleading facts and figures. (Ford does this consistently and intentionally) Smitherman's drug use is in the past, so it is of little interest to me, as long as he doesn't lie about it and it doesn't effect his work. I see no signs of that, it's not an issue. (so why keep harping on it?) If he was walking around obviously high or drunk, then I could see an issue.

Let's face it, in this election, we don't have many good choices. I wish I had better options but of the candidates we have, I think Smitherman is the best choice. (though Tory might have made a better mayor) I think he's fairly competent and clearly superior to Ford. Have you not watched the debates? Ford NEVER answers a direct question, with a direct answer. (unless it's about that "gravy train")

Why am I anti-Ford? Well, first of all, I think I'm pretty good at reading people. I don't get a sense of any integrity from Ford. I see a series of personality traits that I have seen in many other people. It's always a sign of a certain kind of mind set. The bottom line is, I don't think Ford has the qualities, I want in a mayor. Much of my opinion is based on watching Ford over the last few years. I see him as very calculating, manipulative and self serving. Let's face it, the guy has been caught in lies, more than a few times. I don't think he cares much about this city or the people in it. He has his own, self-serving agenda, that he intends to carry out.

I don't think he'll think twice about doing things he knows are harmful to the city. (removing streetcars) The way he voted in council, was not intended to be helpful in any way. It was purely to make a political statement, be disruptive and for his own political gain. He obviously was planning to run for mayor years ago and voted to appeal to a segment of the population. (which he probably took a survey before deciding) He portrays himself as Mr. average guy, yet the man is a multi-millionaire and he's using that wealth as a tool. He doesn't use his expense account because he doesn't have to but he'll sure as hell make sure everyone knows about it. This man wouldn't even consider giving to charity, anonymously. (come on, you know it! lol) He's an elite, pretending to be something he is not.

I don't want to go on and on with all the issues I have with Ford, I'll just say, I don't think he has the qualities I look for in people, never mind politicians. It's as simple as that. I think he would be the worst mayor Toronto has ever had. (YES, worse than Lastman) That's why I would hate to see Ford lead this city. I just want what's best for Toronto.

 

[allabootmatt]

Was doing a little Wikipedia reading because I was curious about who got what in the 2003 election. Interesting to note that John Tory lost with 38 percent of votes cast, to Miller's 43 percent. Hall was at 9, Nunziata at 5 or so. I don't by any means wish to minimise the Ford threat, but it's interesting to note that what seems to be his peak support at 30-34 percent of likely voters is less than what couldn't get Tory through. (Knocks on wood re: next poll.)

 

[TwoDogs_39]

Except, if you look closely, the Ford fanatics who have taken to the website all 1) repeat the same talking points and 2) hate the Star. However, 3) the Star is still the most popular newspaper in the city. That's a whole lot of readers who are not making asses of themselves on the Star's forum.

The Ford fanatics absolutely flood the Star's comment section. If you click on the comments of any election article, you'll see the same sh!t spurred over and over and over again. It's clearly a few handfuls of Ford supporters -- probably well orchestrated ones at that -- who repeatedly post in the comments section. It makes it appear that the entire city of Toronto hates Smitherman and loves Ford, but in reality it's probably a group of 30 or 40 people, organized by the Ford campaign, to reply EACH AND EVERY time to these election articles. I'm convinced there's nothing "natural" about the replies to these articles. It's an affront to democracy IMHO.

 

[SimonP]

It's a misconception that all of Joe's support is downtown NDPers and progressives. The majority of those people are still undecided and are the fence sitters waiting to see who becomes the main rival to Ford.

Joe's best wards are mostly not those downtown, but those along Weston Road. Those areas represented Moscoe, Mammoliti, Peruzza etc. In these areas Smitherman is running fourth in the polls, and if either Pantalone or Rossi were to drop out the majority of those votes would go to Ford.

 

[Automation Gallery]

Was doing a little Wikipedia reading because I was curious about who got what in the 2003 election. Interesting to note that John Tory lost with 38 percent of votes cast, to Miller's 43 percent. Hall was at 9, Nunziata at 5 or so. I don't by any means wish to minimise the Ford threat, but it's interesting to note that what seems to be his peak support at 30-34 percent of likely voters is less than what couldn't get Tory through. (Knocks on wood re: next poll.)

True, but then again i think Pantalone and Rossi are stronger contenders in this election than Hall and Nunziata were ever in the 2003 election......it will be a close one

 

[GraphicMatt]

At the CBC debate on Tuesday, there were only a few hardcore Ford supporters in the audience. They were quiet except for whenever Ford mentioned eHealth, at which time they would applaud incredibly loudly. It was odd.

 

[archanfel]

I haven't seen too many people calling Ford a "supervillian". I see them calling him fat, which is the least of what bothers me about Ford. With all the legitimate concerns about Ford, nobody has to stoop to that level but it's an easy laugh, so they do. It's pointless but people do have legitimate complaints against Ford. Beyond what he has done or not done, my main concern is the man's character.

For me personally, I am voting for Smitherman because I believe he will be in the best position to defeat Ford. I have not seen enough information to make an informed decision about E Health or any of the other major issues his detractors mention.(Do we really know what happened and why?) We all know how little truth there is when dealing with politics and all the spin that goes on. We are constantly lied to (about everything) and manipulated with misleading facts and figures. (Ford does this consistently and intentionally) Smitherman's drug use is in the past, so it is of little interest to me, as long as he doesn't lie about it and it doesn't effect his work. I see no signs of that, it's not an issue. (so why keep harping on it?) If he was walking around obviously high or drunk, then I could see an issue.

Why am I anti-Ford? Well, first of all, I think I'm pretty good at reading people. I don't get a sense of any integrity from Ford. I see a series of personality traits that I have seen in many other people. It's always a sign of a certain kind of mind set. The bottom line is, I don't think Ford has the qualities, I want in a mayor. Much of my opinion is based on watching Ford over the last few years. I see him as very calculating, manipulative and self serving. Let's face it, the guy has been caught in lies, more than a few times. I don't think he cares much about this city or the people in it. He has his own, self-serving agenda, that he intends to carry out.

I don't think he'll think twice about doing things he knows are harmful to the city. (removing streetcars) The way he voted in council, was not intended to be helpful in any way. It was purely to make a political statement, be disruptive and for his own political gain. He obviously was planning to run for mayor years ago and voted to appeal to a segment of the population. (which he probably took a survey before deciding) He portrays himself as Mr. average guy, yet the man is a multi-millionaire and he's using that wealth as a tool. He doesn't use his expense account because he doesn't have to but he'll sure as hell make sure everyone knows about it. This man wouldn't think twice about giving to charity, anonymously. (come on, you know it! lol) He's an elite, pretending to be something he is not.

I don't want to go on and on with all the issues I have with Ford, I'll just say, I don't think he has the qualities I look for in people, never mind politicians. It's as simple as that. I think he would be the worst mayor Toronto has ever had. (YES, worse than Lastman) That's why I would hate to see Ford lead this city. I just want what's best for Toronto.

First of all, thank you for a serious reply. I appreciate it.

I have no problem with Smitherman's drug usage. That's a personal choice. As long as he was using his own money and he was not making impaired decisions, that's none of my business.

For e-health, I'd rather believe the auditor general. However, it's not just about e-health. We have the health premium, which was a broken promise. And we have the "ehealth of energy". I can forgive mistakes, but it shows a pattern of wasting and more importantly, not taking responsibilities. I don't see how anybody can trust him with anything. Let alone an entire city. Unfortunately, as you said about Ford "I don't think he has the qualities I look for in people, never mind politicians. It's as simple as that. I think he would be the worst mayor Toronto has ever had. ". I feel that way about Smitherman especially after he let a colleague take the fall for him. You can't say that didn't happen.

I don't get the same impression of Ford as you did. I think he is childish and single minded. Yes, he lies about obvious things, but so do children. As you said, he is already rich, what is it he wants? That the city uses his company to print flier exclusively? Being the mayor is a pretty thankless job unless you want to climb higher. I don't think Rob Ford can go anywhere beyond mayor and I doubt he could get re-elected.

Also, Rob Ford has been a city Councillor for 10 years. He served his constituency with passion and his constituency is happy with him. Again, you can't say that is not the fact.

However, I do agree with you about one thing. Ford won't think twice about doing things that can be harmful to the city. I don't think he knows it would be harmful, (get rid of streetcars does not benefit him, I don't believe in supervillan, everybody does things for a reason, unless you think he is crazy), but nevertheless, he could do a lot of damages.

The question is whether it's worth it in the long run. Mike Harris did a lot of damages, but he fixed Ontario's spending problem (not completely unfortunately since he was thinking reelection) and the current Liberal government still maintained a lot of his policies without paying the political price. I think Rob Ford will definitely cut services (somebody coached him to say otherwise and he still did a bad job lying), and that's ok with me. We have a spending problem, it needs to be fixed. I don't think Smitherman would risk his political career doing that, Rob Ford would. Then we can have somebody more moderate coming in to restore some of the services in a much better financial shape. And the cycle begins anew.

Unfortunately, Rob Ford is no Mike Harris, he does not comes over as a refined cost cutter. Cost cutting requires more than passion. Constant confrontation with everybody would not solve anything. Rather we would have a city deadlocked in internal conflict for 4 years with nothing done. That's my biggest fear about Rob Ford and that's why I am still undecided.

 

[MetroMan]

^ So who would you vote for? Given that your choices are inevitably Rob Ford or George Smitherman. You don't come across as a Joe supporter and Rossi has no chance.

 

[MetroMan]

George Smitherman is already putting a task force together to confront our city's financial problems head on. It's the theme of this election and it's what he has a mandate for. You've already admited that Ford won't be able to get it done. He won't because he just doesn't have the grasp of the complexities involved and he won't be able to work with council. Smitherman is at least a very intelligent man and knows how to manage this problem. He's demonstrated this in debates and in his policy.

I'd rather have had Thomson or Joe, but I realize that we need to resolve the financial mess we're in. I prefer somebody that can take a real shot at it (Smitherman) than somebody who will just mess things up further by throwing the good things out with the bad (Ford).

This election is coming down to 2 guys. Voting for another candidate won't help. When the question is "who will have the skills and political connections to resolve Toronto's financial troubles?" and the choices are Ford or Smitherman, the latter is the obvious choice, by far.

 

[Torontovibe]

Oh, I see. Everybody who dare to attack Smitherman is a Ford fanatic. That's not stereotyping at all.

We have a "Ford, why the supervillan" thread. We have people who called all Ford supporters bigots. We have people calling Ford supporters pigs. And we have people who calls all people in major news paper forums fanatics. Yeah, right, Ford supporters are fanatics.

And I am not even a firm Ford supporter yet. I have said repeatedly that I think he is childish, he is naive and he is not a good team player. If I had a choice, I would nominate him as the deficit attacker in the city, not the mayor. And I don't like that he voted for restricting parking on drive ways no matter what's his excuse. Apparently, to some people, either you are with Smitherman, or you are with Ford. Where have I heard this before? Oh right, somebody else named George. See, that's something new.

You're not a Ford supporter? Really? You sure sound like one.


Are you intentionally twisting people's words or do you just not read what people are writing?

Nobody said ALL Ford supporters are bigots but clearly, many of the Ford supporters online, seem to be. (check reader's comments on all internet sites) Maybe other candidate's supporters are bigots too but I have not seen evidence of that. I also have not seen evidence of belligerent and mean comments coming from the supporters of any other mayoral candidate. It's almost exclusively coming from the angry, rude Ford horde. Why might that be? We all pay taxes, not just Ford supporters.

Nobody said that all those who attack Smitherman are automatically Ford fanatics. Rossy and Pantalone fans do exist too. I think it's when people get nasty with the comments, that we tend to think of them as Ford fanatics because that just seems to be the pattern. I think it's when people refuse to take into consideration both sides, that is the problem. Ford supporters never seem to play fair. No matter what Ford does, he's always in the right. They fail to see his flaws and totally exaggerate everyone else's.

When you say Ford is "naive" don't you really mean not too bright? Get real! We have all seen Ford in debate and reading on his Youtube videos. In all honesty, do you really have confidence in his intellect? Do you really think he has a clear understanding of how this city operates, including the intricacies of the budget? Did you know that Ford has a reputation of not reading reports and studies, before taking a vote on the issue in the study? This is not a secret. Ford is too busy answering his phone and getting garbage cans to people, instead of reading important documents.

People are not attacking Ford just because he is a right winger. They are reacting to what they see, hear, read and perceive about Ford. It's not just a baseless attack. It's clear Ford supporters don't care about many important issues. They are mad and want to stick it to whoever they see as "the man". Who are the real elites? Have people even figured that out? That's a dangerous game to play, as we all are considered elites, to somebody less well off/educated than ourselves.

What I think is sad, and so surprising is that so many people think Ford is the one man who can save Toronto. How he can be anybody's saviour, is totally beyond my comprehension. I'm baffled!

Do we really have that much in common with Mississippi? Scary!

 

[archanfel]

^ So who would you vote for? Given that your choices are inevitably Rob Ford or George Smitherman. You don't come across as a Joe supporter and Rossi has no chance.

I am still watching Ford. He needs to show that he could work with people. He did some of that by trying to form a Ford party and Mammoliti is supporting him. Those are good signs. However, he still appears uncomfortable in debates and his lies are still way too fake. He got to learn to pick his fight and think things through before speaking. I know, it's hard being both genuine and refined. I think people are already know that Ford wants to cut spending, now he has to show that he has the skills to carry it out.

If Ford does not come through, then it's Homer Simpson again, which has been my favored choices in the past several elections. I really wish one day Homer would claim the majority of the vote and show how disappointed we are at the current crops of politicians.

 

[MetroMan]

Well, we at least agree that Homer Simpson is more qualified to be Mayor than Rob Ford. However, what makes you think that he's going to change how he's been for 10 years in city council? Hopefully Ford supporters will have as much common sense as you have shown.

 

[GraphicMatt]

I think you need to look beyond headlines and talking points. The eHealth scandal was a management problem caused by the province's loose rules toward consultants. The Ontario Health Premium was a broken election promise by the Provincial Liberal Party, and was a financial and budgetary decision rather than one linked to the Health Minister. (It was also, it should be noted, fiscally responsible - unless you blame the LPO for rising healthcare costs.) The 'eHealth of Energy' is a lame media term for rising energy costs, made worse recently because this was a particularly hot summer. There's no scandal there.

eHealth, I think, is Smitherman's cross to bear. And it certainly shows that he may lack the management skills necessary to be a truly great mayor. But put it in context based on the facts - don't get swept up by newspaper comments.

It should be noted, too, that the easiest position in politics is off on the sidelines, complaining about the people actually DOING things while you rest on your laurels. Rob Ford's only major accomplishment for ten years in office is a racetrack/casino/thing that does not currently exist beyond agreements. I'd much rather vote for a leader who aspires for greatness but may fall short than one whose interest in city building stops at this year's bottom line.

 

[lafard]

The Ford fanatics absolutely flood the Star's comment section. If you click on the comments of any election article, you'll see the same sh!t spurred over and over and over again. It's clearly a few handfuls of Ford supporters -- probably well orchestrated ones at that -- who repeatedly post in the comments section. It makes it appear that the entire city of Toronto hates Smitherman and loves Ford, but in reality it's probably a group of 30 or 40 people, organized by the Ford campaign, to reply EACH AND EVERY time to these election articles. I'm convinced there's nothing "natural" about the replies to these articles. It's an affront to democracy IMHO.

If you watch the patterns of the articles, you see that the resident Ford supporters are pretty well defeated in the articles defending the virtues of Toronto. The opening of Sherbourne commons a little while back, today's Hume article about 10 great things, etc, you see how thin the rhetoric actually is.

a) Toronto is Detroit junior
b) and apparently declining spectacularly.
c) Rob Ford will fix Toronto. Sorry, waterfront, you'll have to wait until Rob Ford cuts taxes and removes any possibility we'll ever finish you. Liberal elites and whatnot.
d) One or two comments will throw in an "ehealth" or two. Why this is relevant to Sugar Beach is questionable. but that's their MO.

Much like Ford himself, they have one catchphrase and spew it out no matter how irrelevant it may be to the situation.

 

[MetroMan]

...And if we're going to speak about e-Health, it has been shown that it has saved the taxpayers nearly $500M already. It was a screwup and Smitherman has taken responsibility for his part in it over and over in debates, but in the end, it will have paid off.