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Natural Grass in the Rogers Centre/Possibility of a New Baseball Stadium in Toronto

civdis said:
I am a civil engineer with a number of colleagues who worked on the construction of Skydome (as I like to call it) for Ellis Don, so I guess that means "the engineers have chimed in"
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*Engineer.

There is also apparently alot of Engineers who want the "truth' of 911. We call those guys crazy.

I don't doubt the Skydome field could be dug down adding additional seats, or a slightly better viewing angle. But adding an additional 15,000 that way? No way that's going to happen.
 
Mulder said:
*Engineer.

There is also apparently alot of Engineers who want the "truth' of 911. We call those guys crazy.

I don't doubt the Skydome field could be dug down adding additional seats, or a slightly better viewing angle. But adding an additional 15,000 that way? No way that's going to happen.
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So what's the maximum number of extra seats possible? Please show your work.
 
Mulder said:
As soon as the other guy shows his work. He's the original guy who made the statement
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Specific numbers are hard to come by but the Skydome and Superdome roof diameters are almost identical. However the Superdome holds 76,000 for football now that it can no longer be used for baseball. So they've figured out how to cram in the extra seats to a similarly sized dome.
 
Mulder said:
*Engineer.

There is also apparently alot of Engineers who want the "truth' of 911. We call those guys crazy.

I don't doubt the Skydome field could be dug down adding additional seats, or a slightly better viewing angle. But adding an additional 15,000 that way? No way that's going to happen.
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Most engineers accept that it was the "tube" structural system (allowing for interior column free space) that was ultimately responsible for the demise of the WTC, but let's not go there. As for the amount of additional seats, as was stated already, stadiums with a similar circumference can accommodate 70,000+ seats. The footprint of the Rogers Centre is huge. No, I am not going to "show my work" because as you can see from the number of posts (I have been on here for years), I am an infrequent contributor who just doesn't have the time. I only weigh in when I have something to add from a professional viewpoint.
 
Johnny Au said:
The Atlanta Braves are moving to suburban Atlanta around 16 km from its downtown core (around where Five Points is) and we all know how the MARTA is so underused the Sheppard line seems congested in comparison.

It is around the same distance from Toronto's downtown core as Downsview.
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Oh, MARTA's not that underused.
 
civdis said:
Most engineers accept that it was the "tube" structural system (allowing for interior column free space) that was ultimately responsible for the demise of the WTC, but let's not go there. As for the amount of additional seats, as was stated already, stadiums with a similar circumference can accommodate 70,000+ seats. The footprint of the Rogers Centre is huge. No, I am not going to "show my work" because as you can see from the number of posts (I have been on here for years), I am an infrequent contributor who just doesn't have the time. I only weigh in when I have something to add from a professional viewpoint.
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Yes, but as others have pointed out, your professional viewpoint on this subject is out to lunch. For which you've only backed up by saying "I'm a civil engineer"

Inorder to achieve what you are proposing, Rogers Centre at centre field would have to be 64 rows. (Currently 40) and dug down at least 12 meters to allow for a better slope. That's alot of digging, not to mention the potential to undermine existing foundations.
 
Mulder said:
Yes, but as others have pointed out, your professional viewpoint on this subject is out to lunch. For which you've only backed up by saying "I'm a civil engineer"

Inorder to achieve what you are proposing, Rogers Centre at centre field would have to be 64 rows. (Currently 40) and dug down at least 12 meters to allow for a better slope. That's alot of digging, not to mention the potential to undermine existing foundations.
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Ok, I will bite. In a CFL football configuration, there is almost no end zone seating so your extrapolation to 64 rows isn't exactly accurate. The addition of all that end zone seating would go a long way in an NFL mode. The foundations are anchored in bedrock (georgian bay shale formation and post tensioned in the north end to resist overturning forces from the roof) so undermining really isn't an issue. Even if it was, there are plenty of shoring techniques to take care of that. Am I going to put the time and effort into doing a detailed analysis of exactly how much seating can be added to the 100 level, no, but suffice to say that my original premise that Skydome could be dug down to accommodate an NFL field with expanded seating stands.
 
civdis said:
Ok, I will bite. In a CFL football configuration, there is almost no end zone seating so your extrapolation to 64 rows isn't exactly accurate. The addition of all that end zone seating would go a long way in an NFL mode. The foundations are anchored in bedrock (georgian bay shale formation and post tensioned in the north end to resist overturning forces from the roof) so undermining really isn't an issue. Even if it was, there are plenty of shoring techniques to take care of that. Am I going to put the time and effort into doing a detailed analysis of exactly how much seating can be added to the 100 level, no, but suffice to say that my original premise that Skydome could be dug down to accommodate an NFL field with expanded seating stands.
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It's a good thing I accounted for 4000 of your 15,000 seats to go in the endzone. (There is just over 2000 seats in the 100 level endzone, south side I would assume a similar number in the north) The NFL in Toronto setup showed that you'll get an extra 1,500 to bring it very close to the touchline in the endzone, So digging down doesn't help unless you move the field, or seriously steepen the slope.

There is an average of 24 seats per row on the sidelines, 10 sections per side. So adding 5,500 seats per side would require, GASP, 23 extra rows! There is currently 40 rows at midfield. Do the math. It's a shame that it's "not exactly accurate" as finding measurements is hard to come by. But it's more numbers than you've actually provided. At .8m per seating platform, that brings you to 50.4m. The current rows sit about 34m, you "gain" 5m per side by the different between CFL & NFL field, and MAYBE have a maximum of 5m until you hit the NFL mandated 30 feet (9m) NFL sideline width.

If Rogers did want to lower the grade, the max they could probably up it by is 7000, there is no way they'll get 15,000 by lowering the main floor. Sorry.

But anyways, we are talking about a theoretical situation that the NFL would even consider Toronto, the NFL isn't coming here for a long, long time.
 
Mulder said:
It's a good thing I accounted for 4000 of your 15,000 seats to go in the endzone. (There is just over 2000 seats in the 100 level endzone, south side I would assume a similar number in the north) The NFL in Toronto setup showed that you'll get an extra 1,500 to bring it very close to the touchline in the endzone, So digging down doesn't help unless you move the field, or seriously steepen the slope.

There is an average of 24 seats per row on the sidelines, 10 sections per side. So adding 5,500 seats per side would require, GASP, 23 extra rows! There is currently 40 rows at midfield. Do the math. It's a shame that it's "not exactly accurate" as finding measurements is hard to come by. But it's more numbers than you've actually provided. At .8m per seating platform, that brings you to 50.4m. The current rows sit about 34m, you "gain" 5m per side by the different between CFL & NFL field, and MAYBE have a maximum of 5m until you hit the NFL mandated 30 feet (9m) NFL sideline width.

If Rogers did want to lower the grade, the max they could probably up it by is 7000, there is no way they'll get 15,000 by lowering the main floor. Sorry.

But anyways, we are talking about a theoretical situation that the NFL would even consider Toronto, the NFL isn't coming here for a long, long time.
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Someone has way too much time on their hands! You are not grasping the basic geometry but I don't have time to explain it to you. I do know what I have been told by people very qualified to speak on the subject. Until we have drawings, this argument will not be resolved. I'm out.
 
civdis said:
Someone has way too much time on their hands! You are not grasping the basic geometry but I don't have time to explain it to you. I do know what I have been told by people very qualified to speak on the subject. Until we have drawings, this argument will not be resolved. I'm out.
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Attack the post, not the poster, calling me stupid because you think I don't grasp "basic geometry". That's weak. You have not provided one counter point, nor any proof of concept other than "we dig down" That's some great engineer you are. You make a claim that Rogers Centre could be dug down to provide 15,000 extra seats, and failed to provide anything to prove that it would even remotely work.

I gave you crude, yet usable measurements based on stadium design and known dimension of Rogers Centre on how far you'd need to push out & or dig down to achieve your magic number. I put this together in less than 30 minutes & shown that it really doesn't work. The only thing I didn't do is CAD/drawing elevation, which I may just do tomorrow.

Don't go flaunting around "I'm an engineer, so they have chimed in" without being prepared to defend your statement. You (we) have to do that for everything else.
 
The Dome is in the perfect location. I'd rather see them spend the money necessary to update it than build another stadium.
 
I thought I heard the hotel lease at the rogers centre expires in a few years and it hasnt been renewed yet... and Rogers is having a tough time getting grass to grow. I always thought remove the hotel - replace with seats and build a new baseball stadium would be the way to go.
 
Kitsune said:
I thought I heard the hotel lease at the rogers centre expires in a few years and it hasnt been renewed yet... and Rogers is having a tough time getting grass to grow. I always thought remove the hotel - replace with seats and build a new baseball stadium would be the way to go.
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The hotel was sold years ago ....Sportsco (then owner of the then SkyDome) sold the hotel to Larco Enterprises for $34 million. Rogers have never owned the hotel.

EDIT: I believe it was December 1999 that the hotel was sold.
 
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