Natural Grass in the Rogers Centre/Possibility of a New Baseball Stadium in Toronto

[TOareaFan]

There was definitely talk of digging down. There is no parking under the field, it is under the concourse that rings the stadium.

Sure.....but lowering the field only makes room for more seats if you also dig down around the field to put in a new "100" level....and that would eliminate the parking and introduce (i would imagine) some interesting structural/support type issues.

As for the rake of the first level seating, this would actually be improved because it could be made steeper with a dig down (one of the criticisms is that it is currently to shallow).

Well if as part of your dig down you are going to change the rake of the current 100 level you are getting into a whole other area....and getting darn close to just gutting the entire stadium. (yes...the 100 level is very shallow for football and soccer....as I noted earlier, it was primarily designed for baseball).

An additional 15k seats could easily be accommodated for an NFL sized field.

If you take out the word "easily" I might b closer to agreeing with you.

 

[junior43]

Unless they can get grass in the dome, there's no point talking renos. Without a grass field, the Jays will go the way of the Expos within 10-15 years. We're already behind the eight ball again with the USD. We can't also handicap ourselves with fake turf. No top quality free agents are going to want to play here.

Temp stadium at the Ex, and rebuild Skydome? Or just move back to the Ex?

Yes, I previously said I thought the Ex was a no go for me, but it will help to bring people back the Ex grounds again, it already has a GO stop that works perfectly fine for TFC games - and the Jays once upon a time. Also, maybe we can setup an entertainment district there as well? People in other threads have been lamenting the loss of the old entertainment district, and there'd probably be less nimbyism resistance in that area (but I may be wrong with all the new condos in the area as well) Also, getting people to the Ex grounds again, gets them closer to Ontario Place too. Yet another of our underused assets.

I think I just talked myself into the Exhibition grounds.

 

[Translude15]

Unless they can get grass in the dome, there's no point talking renos. Without a grass field, the Jays will go the way of the Expos within 10-15 years. We're already behind the eight ball again with the USD. We can't also handicap ourselves with fake turf. No top quality free agents are going to want to play here.

Temp stadium at the Ex, and rebuild Skydome? Or just move back to the Ex?

Yes, I previously said I thought the Ex was a no go for me, but it will help to bring people back the Ex grounds again, it already has a GO stop that works perfectly fine for TFC games - and the Jays once upon a time. Also, maybe we can setup an entertainment district there as well? People in other threads have been lamenting the loss of the old entertainment district, and there'd probably be less nimbyism resistance in that area (but I may be wrong with all the new condos in the area as well) Also, getting people to the Ex grounds again, gets them closer to Ontario Place too. Yet another of our underused assets.

I think I just talked myself into the Exhibition grounds.

An artificial field was not the main reason the Expos left Montreal, far from it in fact. And where would the Jays play temporarily at the Ex exactly? There's no way they could play at BMO given the ongoing expansion.

 

[animatronic]

Also, getting people to the Ex grounds again, gets them closer to Ontario Place too. Yet another of our underused assets.

I think I just talked myself into the Exhibition grounds.

Don't just get the people close to Ontario Place - put the stadium in Ontario Place. A stadium, Molson Amphitheater and the historical structures would make an instant entertainment district. Think of the view of the city you could have over the right field wall (or however they align it).

Ontario Place - Camden Yards for scale:

 

[junctionist]

That would be awesome, though an old-school stadium wouldn't fit with Ontario Place's Modernist heritage.

 

[Johnny Au]

That would be awesome, though an old-school stadium wouldn't fit with Ontario Place's Modernist heritage.

Perhaps one similar to the Marlins' new stadium would.

 

[junior43]

An artificial field was not the main reason the Expos left Montreal, far from it in fact. And where would the Jays play temporarily at the Ex exactly? There's no way they could play at BMO given the ongoing expansion.

I know that's not the reason the Expos left, my point is, our fans (unless its the Leafs), are bandwagon fans. SO attendance will dwindle as we fail to sign free agents and we slowly get worse. combined with the CAD they'll eventually move/get sold.

As for the temp stadium at the ex, it would be south of BMO field I guess, but it's a remote idea I threw out there. the Dome is the best place for the Jays to be, so I was just trying to find a place for them temporarily.

I was thinking of Ontario Place, but as the name suggests, it's supposed to be for all of Ontario, so I think there'd be a fair amount of resistance to the idea - and the transit options aren't as good there either.

Another crazy idea, put the stadium in the western portion of the Ex, beside the Liberty grand bldg., then have the exterior of the stadium in the same style as LG and the other buildings around. It's even more retro than the current crop of stadiums. Then make the LG and other buildings stores, bars and restaurants.

 

[Translude15]

I know that's not the reason the Expos left, my point is, our fans (unless its the Leafs), are bandwagon fans. SO attendance will dwindle as we fail to sign free agents and we slowly get worse. combined with the CAD they'll eventually move/get sold.

As for the temp stadium at the ex, it would be south of BMO field I guess, but it's a remote idea I threw out there. the Dome is the best place for the Jays to be, so I was just trying to find a place for them temporarily.

I was thinking of Ontario Place, but as the name suggests, it's supposed to be for all of Ontario, so I think there'd be a fair amount of resistance to the idea - and the transit options aren't as good there either.

Another crazy idea, put the stadium in the western portion of the Ex, beside the Liberty grand bldg., then have the exterior of the stadium in the same style as LG and the other buildings around. It's even more retro than the current crop of stadiums. Then make the LG and other buildings stores, bars and restaurants.

Despite their lengthy playoff drought, the Jays aren't anywhere near the same position the Expos were in, nor will they be unless the fans completely turned their backs to the franchise, which I don't foresee happening. So no, the Jays aren't bound to be the Expos 2.0 and your claims they could become so could technically apply to all 30 MLB teams if their respective fan bases suddenly stopped caring.

Liberty Grand and Muzik are both owned by Liberty Entertainment Group who would not hand over their prime assets to Rogers unless they were paid handsomely for them, which Rogers wouldn't do for a temporary baseball stadium, so that idea doesn't work either.

If you're talking about the most western portion of the Ex, remember, MLSE is building the new Raptors practice facility there, so that also wouldn't work.

 

[junior43]

Despite their lengthy playoff drought, the Jays aren't anywhere near the same position the Expos were in, nor will they be unless the fans completely turned their backs to the franchise, which I don't foresee happening. So no, the Jays aren't bound to be the Expos 2.0 and your claims they could become so could technically apply to all 30 MLB teams if their respective fan bases suddenly stopped caring.

Liberty Grand and Muzik are both owned by Liberty Entertainment Group who would not hand over their prime assets to Rogers unless they were paid handsomely for them, which Rogers wouldn't do for a temporary baseball stadium, so that idea doesn't work either.

If you're talking about the most western portion of the Ex, remember, MLSE is building the new Raptors practice facility there, so that also wouldn't work.

Just to be clear, temp stadium would be south of BMO, permanent field would be beside LG. But, as you mention, Raptors are going there and it would be costly. Then again, anywhere the Jays could move to would be costly - in the city, close to the core.

 

[Civdis]

Sure.....but lowering the field only makes room for more seats if you also dig down around the field to put in a new "100" level....and that would eliminate the parking and introduce (i would imagine) some interesting structural/support type issues.



Well if as part of your dig down you are going to change the rake of the current 100 level you are getting into a whole other area....and getting darn close to just gutting the entire stadium. (yes...the 100 level is very shallow for football and soccer....as I noted earlier, it was primarily designed for baseball).

If you take out the word "easily" I might b closer to agreeing with you.

The parking would not need to be eliminated. Most of the 100 level seating is on a movable rail system and the parking is actually under the concrete concourse, not the seating areas. There isn't much parking provided anyway. With a much smaller NFL field (both width and length) at a new lower level, the reconfigured 100 level seating would start from the existing concourse at a steeper rake extending further into the building and adding at least 15,000 more seats. None of the structural elements of the stadium need to be touched. This is much cheaper than building a whole new dome at over $1B.

 

[TOareaFan]

The parking would not need to be eliminated. Most of the 100 level seating is on a movable rail system and the parking is actually under the concrete concourse, not the seating areas. There isn't much parking provided anyway. With a much smaller NFL field (both width and length) at a new lower level, the reconfigured 100 level seating would start from the existing concourse at a steeper rake extending further into the building and adding at least 15,000 more seats. None of the structural elements of the stadium need to be touched. This is much cheaper than building a whole new dome at over $1B.

I disagree with most of what you are saying......but we will just have to wait for the engineers to chime in.

 

[sixrings]

I know the ex is just on the border of downtown which may have some appeal and that the BMO field is there so it might sound doable by transit. However a baseball stadium carrying 30-40k is a lot different then soccer at 20-30. If the DRL was done and there was a subway stop here I may feel differently but as it is I cant see this situation (streetcar,GOtrain,Parking) being better than Dundas West which already has a subway and GO. I understand people want to be downtown but if you really are not directly in the core and walkable than I don't think it matters too much if its a bit outside. For either it is likely most people will be taking transit. BTW the area of bloor beside dundas west would see a crazy amount of new sports bars and restaurants in an already walkable area.

 

[Civdis]

I disagree with most of what you are saying......but we will just have to wait for the engineers to chime in.

I am a civil engineer with a number of colleagues who worked on the construction of Skydome (as I like to call it) for Ellis Don, so I guess that means "the engineers have chimed in"

 

[junctionist]

Ontario Place should have a stop on a subway or LRT line. Montreal did well in building a Metro station at Expo 67, which they use to this day.

 

[Johnny Au]

The Atlanta Braves are moving to suburban Atlanta around 16 km from its downtown core (around where Five Points is) and we all know how the MARTA is so underused the Sheppard line seems congested in comparison.

It is around the same distance from Toronto's downtown core as Downsview.