Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

[ksun]

I am not saying they are the "wave of the future" - I am saying that you will be dealing with a chunk of the population, who for whatever reason will default to the lowest tech method and go straight to the "human" system simply because it is available and preferred. Case in point - GO Transit and their ticket booths - significant penetration of Presto notwithstanding.

AoD

Many people, not just seniors, will always want to interact with humans because in their mind, it minimizes machine risks (what if the machine fails to give me change? how do I prove it? things like that). That's why you still see tons of people lining up at banks just to withdraw or deposite money, which is absurd.

The sensible thing for TTC to do is to fully machinize. Stop allocating people are non-major stations where machine is the only option. Essentially just force people to use the machine.
but again, that's not possible in Toronto, because it relies on human inspection for paper transfers and scratchable day passes. Essentially a vicious cycle forcing Toronto to be stuck in the 80s.

 

[salsa]

He means that you can buy tickets or passes using the machine instead of talking to someone at the booth. That's what I do, I never use the booth.

However I think some people might need the booth in some cases (student/senior passes?)

You can buy student/senior passes at the machines as well.

 

[nfitz]

the whole world has used it for ages. only in Toronto we pretend it is some sort of cutting-edge high-tech waiting to surprise people.
I am pretty embarassed every time I need to ask visiting friends to buy little tokens and drop into those antique fare boxes, lol.

The whole world? I'm yet to see it much in my travels recently. New York - no. Vancouver - no, but I heard something was coming last time I was there. Seattle - I hear something is in place, but I haven't seen it in use yet. Montreal - yes, but it's a much simpler system with severe limitations if you start travelling where you don't travel regularly.

I'd be more embarrassed in those towns, if I didn't know when my bus was coming, which Toronto has had running now for years.

 

[MrsNesbitt]

I saw this article at work today and snorted out loud (I got some odd looks).

I can't stand the TTC sometimes, I seriously can't. Things like this remind me how hopelessly pathetic it is as an organization.

Presto, especially the way that the TTC hopes to implement it, is not really that complicated of a system. Apparently it's simple enough for every other transit operator in the GTA to have put it in place, so that leaves only typical TTC incompetence standing in the way.

Sometimes I think that Metrolinx should just wholly take over Toronto's transit by absorbing the TTC, cleaning house, and putting it on the right track.

 

[TOareaFan]

I saw this article at work today and snorted out loud (I got some odd looks).

I can't stand the TTC sometimes, I seriously can't. Things like this remind me how hopelessly pathetic it is as an organization.

Presto, especially the way that the TTC hopes to implement it, is not really that complicated of a system. Apparently it's simple enough for every other transit operator in the GTA to have put it in place, so that leaves only typical TTC incompetence standing in the way.

Sometimes I think that Metrolinx should just wholly take over Toronto's transit by absorbing the TTC, cleaning house, and putting it on the right track.

You have managed to put me in a strange spot.....I think it is ridiculous how long Presto is taking to be rolled out on TTC (not sure if it is ML or TTC or both to blame and I don't care) but you make me defend them when you compare them to all the other GTA systems....who all operate bus only systems and have much simpler networks. I don't think there is as much complication in the TTC as we are being led to believe but I don't think comparing them to Brampton Transit (as an example) is going to far.

 

[nfitz]

I can't stand the TTC sometimes, I seriously can't. Things like this remind me how hopelessly pathetic it is as an organization.

What does that have to do with the implementation of Presto? TTC awarded the Presto implementation to Metrolinx. They've since made public complaints about Metrolinx's timeframe. What do you suggest, they fire Metrolinx?

Presto, especially the way that the TTC hopes to implement it, is not really that complicated of a system. Apparently it's simple enough for every other transit operator in the GTA to have put it in place, so that leaves only typical TTC incompetence standing in the way.

How does what you are saying make any sense given that Metrolinx is running the timetable?

Also which other Presto-using agency has faregates? Which other Presto-using agency has unstaffed on-vehicle ticket sales?

Sometimes I think that Metrolinx should just wholly take over Toronto's transit by absorbing the TTC, cleaning house, and putting it on the right track.

You want to award Metrolinx for the slow delivery of Presto to TTC?

It took 6 years for Metrolinx (and the Ministry of Transport before Metrolinx) to implement Presto for GO and the other agencies. It's only been 18 months since TTC agreed to take Presto. TTC usage will dwarf the other systems combined - the back office has to be scaled considerably. The 14 subway stations with temporary machines already exceed the usage of every other agency except one.

If they don't do this properly, with enough capacity to handle tens of thousands of simultaneous transactions in milliseconds, then it will be a disaster. Surely some caution is a good thing.

 

[MrsNesbitt]

Look, I suppose these words are based in emotion (utter frustration) rather than fact, and so I typed a bit rashly.

The TTC frustrated me in so many ways, and I can't help but see their clinging to outdated practices and services for no good reason as an impediment to the expansion and success of transit in this city. Yes, Metrolinx shares blame on the dropping of the ball on the Presto file. I can't believe, however, that TTC meddling hasn't been entirely out of the equation in terms of why it's going slowly. Let's not forget that the reason it's been only 18 months is because the TTC only agreed to take Presto much later than it was beginning to be developed - in short, they held out on joining a standardized fare technology for their own reasons for a long time.

But in the end I do see why it's taking them so long. I don't agree with it, but I see why (in terms of scale).

 

[1overcosc]

This is unbelievably pathetic. At this rate, Ottawa's not-even-built-yet subway will surpass Toronto's in terms of technology. Ottawa's Confederation Line will have PRESTO-equipped electronic fare gates (no turnstiles), and human-free stations (no staffed ticket booths, only machines) on opening day in 2018.

It's unbelievably embarrassing that visitors to Toronto have to fumble for change just to take transit here. There are very few places where people have to do to that. Even little tiny Kingston and Brantford have smart card transit. Metrolinx needs to get moving on this ASAP, screw the TTC.

 

[ksun]

The whole world? I'm yet to see it much in my travels recently. New York - no. Vancouver - no, but I heard something was coming last time I was there. Seattle - I hear something is in place, but I haven't seen it in use yet. Montreal - yes, but it's a much simpler system with severe limitations if you start travelling where you don't travel regularly.

Unlike most Canadians, my world goes beyond Americanada.
If you travel enough, you know fare cards are really widely used even in country with per capita GDP 10% of Canada's.

I'd be more embarrassed in those towns, if I didn't know when my bus was coming, which Toronto has had running now for years.

Were you embarrassed when at 2pm Saturday your smartphone says the next 506 is coming in 17 minutes? Or the subway incurs significant delays for more than 4 times a month, sometimes as long as 45 minutes? Or the fact a city the size of Toronto has only 2.5 lines yet charges $134 a month?

If you have taken transit in more cities (I mean outside Americanada, please...), you will know the TTC is really not worth defending. It is simply badly managed at elevated cost. The only good thing about it is subways run pretty frequently (if there is no apology for another delay).

 

[JKDM]

Is this card eventually set to replace the Metropass?

 

[ksun]

Is this card eventually set to replace the Metropass?

I believe so.
This unlimited package thing should be phased out. Sometimes people with perfect mobility take the streetcar for one or 2 stops just because it comes at no extra cost.

 

[mpd618]

Related to Presto - the Region of Waterloo is slated to award a contract tomorrow to Scheidt & Bachmann to install Grand River Transit's new fare system. (Details on page 34 here.) Installation is scheduled for 2015.

The card is independent from Presto apart from a specific integration at the GO train platform. However, the report says: "Staff has spoken with Metrolinx about EFMS [Electronic Fare Management System] integration with Presto. Accordingly, the proposed EFMS includes hardware that is capable of supporting fuller integration with Presto. Staff will continue discussions with Presto as a future phase of the EFMS."

There is also hardware provision for future open payment and smartphone payment.

 

[TOareaFan]

Andy Byford was on Friendly Fire today correcting an impression that the 2019 date is giving....he committed that the current schedule is to have the majority of the system on Presto by the first quarter of 2017. The "lag" to 2019 is for the final roll out of the new streetcars where there will still be old models in service....he said they may even end up equipping the final in service old streetcars so that may not even be an issue.

He also confirmed that as soon as Presto is available on even one vehicle on a streetcar line, all vehicles will be all door boarding.

 

[LNahid2000]

Case in point - GO Transit and their ticket booths - significant penetration of Presto notwithstanding.

I often end up having to use a GO Transit ticket booth even though I always use Presto because of the 24 hour delay when loading online. Also, there is only one Presto loading machine at Union Station which seems to be out of order most of the time.

 

[nfitz]

I often end up having to use a GO Transit ticket booth even though I always use Presto because of the 24 hour delay when loading online. Also, there is only one Presto loading machine at Union Station which seems to be out of order most of the time.

I'd suggest setting up the autoload. Once it's running properly, it's very painless ... and you don't have to worry about it again. The only trouble I've had in 4 years with several Presto cards, is that on one occasion, a card loaded, but my credit card didn't get charged until about 30 days later.

Andy Byford was on Friendly Fire today correcting an impression that the 2019 date is giving....he committed that the current schedule is to have the majority of the system on Presto by the first quarter of 2017.

That's always been the plan ... well, it was early 2016 ... so I guess it has slipped.

I'm not sure why anyone would think otherwise ...