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Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

Not really. Soeul and HK as well. and A number of European cities have those, which need not to be mentioned.
Buenos Aires and Santiago underground also uses rechargable magnatic card.
In the "third world", The Bangkok subway (BTS skytrain and MRT) offer contactless fare cards which can be machine-charged at stations. So does Mexico City.
My world is not that small after all, is it?

Please tell us world traveller, as the first Canadian to have visited the outside world, how is the outside world like? Is there poutine? Tim Hortons? Do they like Hockey? We Canadians have never left the comfort of our igloos before. :cool:
 
Well, there is no need to be facetious in this case - contactless transit payment aren't a rarity anymore, though arguably it isn't the cutting edge either. Incidentally do recall the original TTC open payment plan - while it doesn't make sense for TTC to tackle alone, it might be a better route for everyone down the road instead of getting locked into some propriety solution.

AoD
 
Well, there is no need to be facetious in this case - contactless transit payment aren't a rarity anymore, though arguably it isn't the cutting edge either. Incidentally do recall the original TTC open payment plan - while it doesn't make sense for TTC to tackle alone, it might be a better route for everyone down the road instead of getting locked into some propriety solution.

AoD

I would assume we all know & agree that most of the world uses contact-less transit payment, and that the TTC is behind on the times (and very slow to implement).

My last post was meant to humorously poke fun at ksun's insistence that he is much more well travelled than "most Canadians".

If that was inappropriate then I apologize (like a Canadian would), AoD.
 
I would assume we all know & agree that most of the world uses contact-less transit payment, and that the TTC is behind on the times (and very slow to implement).

My last post was meant to humorously poke fun at ksun's insistence that he is much more well travelled than "most Canadians".

If that was inappropriate then I apologize (like a Canadian would), AoD.

off topic, but I was reacting to a post saying my world means China + Tokyo. Many Canadians are well-travelled. I actually met a lady from Vancouver on my trip in Tierra del fuego.

When I said the world has been using contactless fare card for years, it was really not an exaggeration, yet it somehow hurt some people's pride. I am sure many have travelled to bangkok, a first look at the city you know it is third world, but their fare system is years ahead of the TTC. Even New Dehli where there is a severe toilet shortage has rechargeable fare cards. The fact that it is taking 8 years and $700M in Toronto makes me speechless.
 
Smart cards worldwide have had problems being implemented. From Wikipedia, at this link:

The plastic card in which the chip is embedded is fairly flexible. The larger the chip, the higher the probability that normal use could damage it. Cards are often carried in wallets or pockets, a harsh environment for a chip. However, for large banking systems, failure-management costs can be more than offset by fraud reduction.

If the account holder's computer hosts malware, the smart card security model may be broken. Malware can override the communication (both input via keyboard and output via application screen) between the user and the application. Man-in-the-browser malware (e.g. the trojan Silentbanker) could modify a transaction, unnoticed by the user. Banks like Fortis and Belfius in Belgium and Rabobank ("random reader") in the Netherlands combine a smart card with an unconnected card reader to avoid this problem. The customer enters a challenge received from the bank's website, a PIN and the transaction amount into the reader, The reader returns an 8-digit signature. This signature is manually entered into the personal computer and verified by the bank, preventing malware from changing the transaction amount.

Smart cards have also been the targets of security attacks. These attacks range from physical invasion of the card's electronics, to non-invasive attacks that exploit weaknesses in the card's software or hardware. The usual goal is to expose private encryption keys and then read and manipulate secure data such as funds. Once an attacker develops a non-invasive attack for a particular smart card model, he is typically able to perform the attack on other cards of that model in seconds, often using equipment that can be disguised as a normal smart card readerWhile manufacturers may develop new card models with additional security, it may be costly or inconvenient for users to upgrade vulnerable systems. Tamper-evident and audit features in a smart card system help manage the risks of compromised cards.

Another problem is the lack of standards for functionality and security. To address this problem, The Berlin Group launched the ERIDANE Project to propose "a new functional and security framework for smart-card based Point of Interaction (POI) equipment".
 
Of course nothing is fool proof - as if we haven't had instances of counterfeit tickets and coupons. The fact of the matter is that the technology is tried and true at this stage.

AoD
 
When I said the world has been using contactless fare card for years, it was really not an exaggeration, yet it somehow hurt some people's pride. I am sure many have travelled to bangkok, a first look at the city you know it is third world, but their fare system is years ahead of the TTC. Even New Dehli where there is a severe toilet shortage has rechargeable fare cards. The fact that it is taking 8 years and $700M in Toronto makes me speechless.
I'm really not sure how you can use Bangkok as an example for anything, given that when they opened Makkasan Station on the Airport Link, they failed to build a connection to Phetchaburi subway station on the Blue Line, requiring people to jaywalk down the ramps to the parking garage to get from one station to the other. Personally I've only ever used cash in Bangkok ... and I believe you couldn't even transfer from buses to the Subway without paying a completley new fare. Various transit lines are operated by completely different companees. Is there even a unified smart card yet that is good on the subway, skytrain, buses, and airport link?

It's all very easy to install smart cards on brand new systems. Retrofitting it into older systems designed before anyone anticipated you'd even need power at the faregates, let alone data is a different story. TTC alone is the second-biggest system in North America. They decided to implement Presto in 2012, and are scheduled to be finished by early 2017. Less than 5 years isn't unusual for a system of that size.

The fact that it is taking 8 years and $700M in Toronto makes me speechless.
TTC isn't 8 years ... your confusing with the Presto implementation starting in 2006, which TTC was never a part of. And the TTC Presto implementation is not $700M.
 
TTC alone is the second-biggest system in North America. They decided to implement Presto in 2012, and are scheduled to be finished by early 2017. Less than 5 years isn't unusual for a system of that size.

In terms of ridership, TTC ranks 4th in North America, after NYC, Mexcio City and Montreal.

Even TTC's website says "The TTC is the third largest transit system in North America".

I don't know where the repeated message of being the "second largest" comes from. Also being the third/largest transit system in North America doesn't make it sound large. It is like the second largest city in Manitoba, not so much of a high bar. In the world, it ranks 46th, after smaller cities such as Vienna, Munich, Stockholm etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_systems_by_annual_passenger_rides

And sure, Bangkok's subways have its drawbacks, but I enjoyed the convenience of a direct ride right to downtown, can't say that for Toronto, can we? Pay additional fare to transfer to buses, so? Cities charge fares differently. In Tokyo, you can't use the fare of Tokyo Metro to transfer to Toei lines either. New Yorkers need to pay separate fare for buses too. This is hardly evidence a transit system is inadequate.
 
In terms of ridership, TTC ranks 4th in North America, after NYC, Mexcio City and Montreal.

Even TTC's website says "The TTC is the third largest transit system in North America".

I don't know where the repeated message of being the "second largest" comes from. Also being the third/largest transit system in North America doesn't make it sound large. It is like the second largest city in Manitoba, not so much of a high bar. In the world, it ranks 46th, after smaller cities such as Vienna, Munich, Stockholm etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_systems_by_annual_passenger_rides

And sure, Bangkok's subways have its drawbacks, but I enjoyed the convenience of a direct ride right to downtown, can't say that for Toronto, can we? Pay additional fare to transfer to buses, so? Cities charge fares differently. In Tokyo, you can't use the fare of Tokyo Metro to transfer to Toei lines either. New Yorkers need to pay separate fare for buses too. This is hardly evidence a transit system is inadequate.

No, TTC ranks 3rd, not 4th by ridership in North America after Mexico & NYC.

Montreal beats TTC when looking at subway-only ridership, but TTC has higher ridership including bus & streetcar.
 
No, TTC ranks 3rd, not 4th by ridership in North America after Mexico & NYC.

Montreal beats TTC when looking at subway-only ridership, but TTC has higher ridership including bus & streetcar.

got you.
The fact that Montreal with 2/3 of Toronto's population has a high ridership says something about the layout of the TTC subways. In Montreal the 4 subways seem to cover a larger area, while the University and Yonge line downtown part overlap too much, and lines probably shouldn't have followed a straight line. It is definitely not the most efficient layout give the distance of tracks.
 
In terms of ridership, TTC ranks 4th in North America, after NYC, Mexcio City and Montreal.
Ah, I was thinking Canada/USA ... the definition of North America does vary. Toronto is the second highest in Canada/USA.

TTC's ridership is higher than STM in Montreal.

Even TTC's website says "The TTC is the third largest transit system in North America".
It is, depending on which definition of North America you use.

And sure, Bangkok's subways have its drawbacks, but I enjoyed the convenience of a direct ride right to downtown, can't say that for Toronto, can we?
Since when was Bangkok's subway plural - it's a single 18-station line, that seldom seems to get you quite where you want to go.

In what way does the Yonge-University line not give you a direct ride downtown?
 

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