Ed Drass
Active Member
So what's the status on that new old-fangled farebox?
http://torontoist.com/2010/01/the_ttcs_new_fare_box.php
http://torontoist.com/2010/01/the_ttcs_new_fare_box.php
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nfitz
Superstar
I seem to recall seeing a brief mention somewhere on Steve Munro's site, that this was one of the things that had been deferred in the budget.
As it should be if there's any thought of integrating with Presto anytime soon.
As it should be if there's any thought of integrating with Presto anytime soon.
rbt
Senior Member
Expect to load a few of those items into your phone as early as today if you happen to own a Nexus S. By this time next year you can expect most higher-end phones sold by AT&T, T-Mobile, or Verizon to be using the same type of system -- you can also expect it to work (at very least) in Vancouver and Utah transit agencies.
Government issue ID with photograph will not be valid on the phone for good reason (the embedded photograph makes tampering easier for non-technical people to detect) but several of the other things you mention are coming and will occur pretty quickly as far as currency medium shifts are concerned.
I expect you will be paying for your starbucks coffee, food-court lunch, bottle of wine at LCBO, and transit fares in Vancouver by swiping your phone within 3 years.
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Brandon716
Senior Member
Using a phone to make all purchases seems unlikely given that businesses would be forced to purchase an entirely new infrastructure to process transactions. I don't see enough businesses doing so unless VISA or Mastercard or the banks and the PIN/bank card system pushes for it.
Mapleson
Active Member
Also, there is the adage about if you think you are screwed over by the banks, wait until you let the telecoms deal with your every dollar spent.
rbt
Senior Member
Your not using the phone company to make a purchase.
The "chip" from your Visa is essentially embedded into the phone. You load your Visa onto the phone and make purchases using your visa. You simply don't carry the physical card in your wallet because the information describing your Visa account is no longer located there.
rbt
Senior Member
Your not using the phone company to make a purchase.
The "chip" from your Visa/Mastercard/Other is "virtually" embedded into the phone. You load your Visa information onto the phone and make purchases using your visa. The phone simply plays the expected signals at the correct time based on the code copied from your visa card onto the phone.
Since you now carry a copy of your visa account information around on your phone you no longer require the card that the bank sent you.
Oddly, this mechanism can be more secure as the phone can prevent the card from being swiped until you activate it and will almost certainly only activate one card at a time. A regular physical credit card doesn't require you to press a button or similar to activate it -- it can always be read.
The phone company wants to replace your wallet, not its contents, which will strongly encourage the other 30% of North Americans to get a cellphone. Visa wants a piece of those $2 and under transactions you make frequently (transit fares, vending machines, etc.). The technology is just PayWave but driven by a chip in a different location.
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Mapleson
Active Member
Completely different action set and wishful thinking. When you use your "Visa Card" a certain percentage of earnings go to the bank that carries your visa (Scotiabank Visa, TD Visa, etc). However, "mobile payments" are specifically targetted at least in some cases to "work without debit or credit accounts", and just add a payment to your phone bill. Either way, the telecoms are going to want a piece of the pie, otherwise, why would they allow their networks to be used this way?
jeffreym
Active Member
It has nothing to do with their networks... the RFID chip is in the phone. The phone then simply identifies your credit card account (as rbt said).
nfitz
Superstar
Wow, a TTC Presto page has appeared - http://www3.ttc.ca/Fares_and_passes/Fare_information/Presto_Fare_System/index.jsp
Nothing suprising ... except possibly that the devices are "are the sole responsibility of PRESTO".
Nothing suprising ... except possibly that the devices are "are the sole responsibility of PRESTO".
Mapleson
Active Member
RFID (Radio Frequency Identification) chips are more the white tags used to stop shoplifters. The ID half of it tells the store gates what is being taken.
Smartphone use the phone's "Local Field Communications" to interact between machine and phone. The 'chip' then uses the phone's data network to interact between phone and fincial services, be it credit or debit.
RFID, like a MasterCard wave payment or Esso Express keytags, is only the local half of the transation. How do you suppose the "chip balance" is maintained? If you have an example of a touchless pay system that used by cellphones that only uses third-party data to verify sufficient balance, please share.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
Any payment system is about trust. Any unique ID, hardware provided or user provided can be used to develop a payment system. RFID is the use of a hardware ID that is built into a chip and is almost impossible to change. A phone which has a chip that maintains a constant ID can be registered with a payment system. I'm not sure how many phones have an RFID chip but they are cheap to put anywhere... Dexit had RFID stickers for phones to make debit payments. The advent of high-speed data on smartphones has enabled the possibility of phone software tying into the radio transmitter in phones used for bluetooth to make handshakes with payment devices. This works not because of a unique physical ID but instead because the user has put software on the phone that is tied to a user ID by way of an initial user login process and optionally locked onto the hardware. I don't think the phone software would need to communicate with the data network for every transaction... there would likely be a keystore on the phone. Having the phone use the data network just makes things slow and in a subway type environment where there is no signal that would be impractical.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
What I would like to know is: can I punch a hole in the card and attach a lanyard to the card?
Don't want to lose the Presto card, otherwise.
Don't want to lose the Presto card, otherwise.
vic
Senior Member
https://www.prestocard.ca/en/StaticContent/Faq/
I just keep mine in my wallet and never remove it. Just wave the wallet at the machine. Even works with a good ol' "Presto Card Hip Thrust", leaving my wallet in my pocket.
