yrt+viva=1system
Senior Member
Anyone think that Metrolinx will find some sort of way to end the contract with Accenture and go with a more experienced company who have worked on projects this complex?
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nfitz
Superstar
To be fair though - can you think of a fare card system that is this complex? The fare rules in Montreal and London for example are much, much simpler (and Oyster has had it's issues ... the infamous Oyster extensions for example).
Platform 27
Active Member
The problem with that option isn't GO's fare structures. It's that 2000 people getting off each GO train at Union in the morning rush who all would need to tap out before they could head to their offices would create a pretty huge bottleneck.
Seeing as a really large proportion of GO's riders are using the same two endpoints every trip every day, the notion of a "default trip" option that cut things down to a single tap probably made a lot of sense on the drawing board. I just don't think anyone realized how tricky it would be to have both a default trip functionality and an open-jawed trip functionality coexisting on the same card.
nfitz
Superstar
How do other agencies deal with this? Virtually every London commuter train arrives in it's main-line terminal fully loaded (if not more so), and any Oyster user has to tap out as they get off the train. I guess those trains coming from afar may have a lot of non-Oyster users, but the trains that have the shorter runs within London now have Oyster at all stations.
Seems to me, you only have to put more machines on the platforms, the stairs, the corridors ... it's not like you have to stop walking to touch against one.
SlickFranky
Active Member
If you use GO frequently, you shouldn't use Presto? Wow...
rbt
Senior Member
Sigh...
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/06/salt_lake_city_nfc_trial/
Salt Lake is getting an Isis based payment system next year specifically targeting mobile phone integration (Isis is owned by AT&T, Verizon, T-Mobile, etc.).
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/06/salt_lake_city_nfc_trial/
Salt Lake is getting an Isis based payment system next year specifically targeting mobile phone integration (Isis is owned by AT&T, Verizon, T-Mobile, etc.).
Tuscani01
Senior Member
Would be cool if readers were added to office buildings in the downtown core, to allow people to proceed right to their office, and 'tap off' as they get onto an elevator or something like that.
Jonny5
Senior Member
Or let registered card holders tap off online, in case you forget to do it at the reader.
GraphicMatt
Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
If they're worried about there being too many people off-loading at Union to "tap-off' that really limits Presto's potential for the TTC, with many stations where the crowds coming off trains can be just as heavy -- no chance of fare by distance, etc. I can't imagine this is a problem that wouldn't be solved by the existence of more readers.
Mapleson
Active Member
Oyster has been continually rolling out more machines to provide better service coverage. I'm pretty sure once the whole GTA has at least one machine on each bus and station then they'll go back and see which stations are choking and install some relief machines. Also London's Tube is different than GO/TTC's in that it is a closed exit anyway. Whether you use Oyster or paper tickets, you need to put it in the machine to use the exit turnstills.
You can fix most any problem by throwing more money at it. If you're talking about one Presto reader per car per platform at Union Station, that's about 200 machines by itself. Assuming the other 58 stations only have 1 platform each, that's another 700. I'm not sure how much they cost per machine including installation, but I'd guess at least $500,000 each, so $450m? If a car is full only to seating capacity, and it's 1 second per passenger to swipe, it's 2.5 minutes for 151 people without having any issues. The 2031 Union Station Improvement scheme is trying to get dwell time to under 5 minutes per train.
My solution to the default/open-end question would be, one default trip set per location. If you tap on at Union Station, it assumes you are going to Aldershot; If you tap on at Lisgar, it assumes you are going to Milton. If your next tap is not at your default end location for that trip, it assumes a tap off there and you can tap on again wherever/whenever.
Swarley
Active Member
I really hope it doesn't cost $500,000 per machine... I'd think the most it could be would be $50,000 including all the cabling etc.
Electrify
Senior Member
Even that's high, especially considering we should be getting a lower price due to being manufactured in bulk. The cost of these machines should average $2000-$5000, maybe another $1000-$2500 per installation. I mean, the technology in most cell phones is probably more advanced than these things, and off-contract a high end ones go for about $600. The price premium is due to business-to-business/government transactions tend to be more expensive than ones from business-to-consumer since they aren't mass-produced to the same degree.
Unless they are being made domestically, or not by cheap labour. Then I can understand a $10,000-$50,000 per unit price point. But not much more than that.
Unless they are being made domestically, or not by cheap labour. Then I can understand a $10,000-$50,000 per unit price point. But not much more than that.
kEiThZ
Superstar
It's not the machine that costs that much. It's infrastructure behind it.
Mapleson
Active Member
Exactly. Just Contract Administration is around $4000 a week. $500k is definately on the high side, but it's just as definately a six-figure number, and the average number of platforms is definately above 1.
RC8
Senior Member
You wouldn't have to 'tap off' when using the subway, as a TTC fare does not depend on the distance you've traveled.