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TOareaFan
Superstar
My daughter had an experience on a GO bus the other night that sorta shows how limited this is. She and a friend were taking a GO bus to TTC. She has her own Presto and her friend was using mine (to make the trip easier). For some reason my card showed as having a zero balance. The driver, it seems, neither had the time nor training to investigate further.....they had to disembark and buy a ticket from the station (they did not have cash so needed to use an interac card). By all accounts, the driver was not rude nor aburpt...he just did not have, as I said, the time nor knowledge to solve the problem.
So having another option other than drivers to fix these problems is not a bad idea.
P.S. we still don't know why the card did not work.....once back on the bus she sent me a text and I was able to confirm there was slightly over $20 on the card and that it should have worked and reloaded on the next transaction....which it did when they tapped on at Union Station for their short subway trip.
BMO
Senior Member
edit: nvmd...
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nfitz
Superstar
I bet the cost for 30 minutes of GO driver time a week is far more than what GO is paying the Federation of Students at the University of Waterloo to deal with PRESTO issues. The Turnkeys are already there ... there is no extra staffing, and I doubt any extra cost, other than installing the hardware. And how is that a bad thing?
BMO
Senior Member
I edited my post before you replied. I was under the impression the were installing the presto machines like what they have at Union Station, whic I didn't understand why they would do that when they can just tap onto the bus, etc. I didn't realize it was just allowing the computers or equipment at Turnkey desk to be used to deal with these issues.
waterloowarrior
Senior Member
Presto launching July 2012 in Ottawa according to OC's 2012 business plan
RedRocket191
Senior Member
Could the TTC now reject the PRESTO smart card?
Synopsis: The Ford-McGuinty agreement included a PRESTO clause, and since that agreement is now dead some feel that PRESTO participation is now up for debate.
Personally, I don't think the city will change direction, especially since the version of PRESTO they will get will include open payment. The whole reason they wanted to go with open payment in the first place was because they thought a VISA or a Mastercard would pay to install the system in return for a piece of the transactions. I'm personally not convinced that such a company would pay for the full costs of installation and upkeep, but I'm not an economist (I'm just a planner - no one listens to me anyway). Yes, there was one bidder, but I don't think anyone feels comfortable sole-sourcing in a post eHealth climate.
One thing to keep in mind is that whatever gets built in Toronto with provincial funds must accept PRESTO. TTC management may be willing to accept a system where some forms of payment are accepted in certain places but not others, but will council and the citizens accept such an arrangement? I have my doubts.
Synopsis: The Ford-McGuinty agreement included a PRESTO clause, and since that agreement is now dead some feel that PRESTO participation is now up for debate.
Personally, I don't think the city will change direction, especially since the version of PRESTO they will get will include open payment. The whole reason they wanted to go with open payment in the first place was because they thought a VISA or a Mastercard would pay to install the system in return for a piece of the transactions. I'm personally not convinced that such a company would pay for the full costs of installation and upkeep, but I'm not an economist (I'm just a planner - no one listens to me anyway). Yes, there was one bidder, but I don't think anyone feels comfortable sole-sourcing in a post eHealth climate.
One thing to keep in mind is that whatever gets built in Toronto with provincial funds must accept PRESTO. TTC management may be willing to accept a system where some forms of payment are accepted in certain places but not others, but will council and the citizens accept such an arrangement? I have my doubts.
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TOareaFan
Superstar
I think you are spot on in your analysis. Regardless of which plan the city ends up agreeing with the Province on with regards to transit priorities (they will end up agreeing on one....right?) they will need a significant contribution from the provincial treasury...in that case, the province will always be able to tie that funding to the implementation/use of their preferred payment system.
nfitz
Superstar
Looks more like the Star asking some councillors loaded off-the-cuff questions than anything actually going to change. There is no way TTC could restart their own program, and get it installed faster than it's going in under Presto. And no real $ savings any more. And at least with Presto, all the financial risk is on Metrolinx, not on TTC.
Dan416
Senior Member
Just install Presto on the TTC. I don't even care who does it. Luckily most of the stations I use anyway already have Presto.
royalrivers
Active Member
PRESTO machines are now installed at Guelph and Kitchener Stations.
Monthly Paper pass tickets will be phased out by 2013 giving people time to switch to PRESTO.
Monthly Paper pass tickets will be phased out by 2013 giving people time to switch to PRESTO.
royalrivers
Active Member
drum118
Superstar
According to the chair of Metrolinx today in around about way, if TTC does not use PRESTO, it could loose all kinds of funding that it currently gets now from the province.
The new PRESTO card is the next generation card that meets all or most of TTC requirements. The 2nd generation cards have PRESTO side way, not top-bottom.
If you don't have a card yet, you can get one free now, without paying the normal $6 fee.
There will/maybe a report at next week TTC meeting or March, where the commission will agree/approve the contract for the PRESTO system and will be completely installed by early 2015.
Metrolinx is still proceeding as plan to install more readers at more TTC station even without a contract in place.
There will be a 2nd kiosk at Union shortly, with OC getting 3 of them for their system at this time.
There are still bugs in the system and I have sent some info into Metrolinx on trips where no fare has been deducted, but most of all, missing loading at GO Stations. One day my card said I have $38 on it when I check it at the station and when I check my account on line, it said I have $10, which is odd considering I never travel on the card after I check it at the GO Station.
One area I see that will become an issue to various riders using local transit is running out of time to make that last connect due to issue not control by the rider. If a bus is delay due to accidents, weather or breakdown and is late showing up at a rider stop or transfer to their final connection that is past the rider travel time, they have to pay an extra fare. Given the system has no idea of what is taking place on a route or transit system, it will charge that extra fare based on the time. The only way a rider can get around this extra fare if they are aware of it, is to asked the driver for a transfer. Not sure if that is possible.
The new PRESTO card is the next generation card that meets all or most of TTC requirements. The 2nd generation cards have PRESTO side way, not top-bottom.
If you don't have a card yet, you can get one free now, without paying the normal $6 fee.
There will/maybe a report at next week TTC meeting or March, where the commission will agree/approve the contract for the PRESTO system and will be completely installed by early 2015.
Metrolinx is still proceeding as plan to install more readers at more TTC station even without a contract in place.
There will be a 2nd kiosk at Union shortly, with OC getting 3 of them for their system at this time.
There are still bugs in the system and I have sent some info into Metrolinx on trips where no fare has been deducted, but most of all, missing loading at GO Stations. One day my card said I have $38 on it when I check it at the station and when I check my account on line, it said I have $10, which is odd considering I never travel on the card after I check it at the GO Station.
One area I see that will become an issue to various riders using local transit is running out of time to make that last connect due to issue not control by the rider. If a bus is delay due to accidents, weather or breakdown and is late showing up at a rider stop or transfer to their final connection that is past the rider travel time, they have to pay an extra fare. Given the system has no idea of what is taking place on a route or transit system, it will charge that extra fare based on the time. The only way a rider can get around this extra fare if they are aware of it, is to asked the driver for a transfer. Not sure if that is possible.
royalrivers
Active Member
PRESTO takes 3% of the transit systems revenue according to my source within a transit agency. That is why TTC does not want to go PRESTO
TOareaFan
Superstar
Every fare system has costs.
Is producing/collecting/adminstering tokens/tickets/passes free?
The system they were looking at instead of Presto was going to accept credit cards...were they going to be that unique retailer that visa/mc/amex were going to return 100% of money collected to?
The 3% (if that is accurate) has to be weighed against the current collection costs and savings that Presto might produce on those.