Mayor Olivia Chow's Toronto

[Northern Light]

Why would the province/Ottawa subsidize us any further? My parents who live in a small town in Northern Ontario pay extremely high taxes (8-10k) for a house that's probably worth 250k.Why should they have to contribute/subsidize wealthy Torontonians where the average cost of a house is over 1 million, who pay less in taxes? The wealthiest people in the country going to knock on the door to rob from the poorest makes no sense - and I live in Toronto!

So there are a few answers to this.

The first is that 'the province/Ottawa' have to offer something doesn't automatically mean additional transfers; it may mean permission for Toronto to raise its own money such as road tolls, or municipal sales tax,.

Second, on sales tax, the City's preferred strategy is a province-wide or nation-wide deal where all municipalities, including those in the north, would pick up 1% of the sales tax, be that the current tax or an additional point of increase.

Third, Toronto (and Vancouver) are saddled with some costs imposed by Ottawa such as refugee settlement, and low-income foreign students. While these both exist in some measure in municipalities of various sizes,
Toronto and Vancouver experience out-sized impacts relative to population size.

There is a moral argument that if Ottawa is directly imposing a cost on Toronto, it should pay for that.

There are also costs that few other cities pay, Toronto essentially covers the cost of 2 400-series highways, the Gardiner/DVP which generally city government's across the country do not pay.

Finally, I would note that Toronto's property taxes are lower, than many places in the north, but Torontonians also pay a range of fees and taxes that are less and/or non-existent up north.

Garbage and Water are not included in property tax here; and there is a municipal land transfer tax, among other fees not common elsewhere.

 

[toaster29]

Toronto subsidizes them, they don't subsidize Toronto. If Toronto blipped out of existence tomorrow small towns across Ontario would be in big trouble.

I'm not so sure. The natural resources in the North could sustain that region for hundreds of years. They could force these mining giants to process in their own area (like Quebec does) instead of shipping out of province, they could also put hefty taxes on extractions, to sustain the area. They could also sell their energy (particularly hydro) back to Toronto. I think they would be fine.

Anyway, I still think Toronto needs to raise property taxes FIRST, and then show that even with taxes in line with the rest of the province, we can't pay for things. But that ask has to come after our property taxes are in line with the rest of the province. The optics alone don't look good, but beyond that, I don't believe it makes economic sense to subsidize the most wealthy in the province.

 

[picard102]

I'm not so sure. The natural resources in the North could sustain that region for hundreds of years. They could force these mining giants to process in their own area (like Quebec does) instead of shipping out of province, they could also put hefty taxes on extractions, to sustain the area. They could also sell their energy (particularly hydro) back to Toronto. I think they would be fine.

I'm from the North. I'm at the Thunder Bay airport right now. This is not true. The mines here can't support full communities on their own. I'd say they do more damage in the long run to Northern communities than benefit.
Even if they could. The vast majority of the money from the mines flows out of the region.

For example, New Gold Inc, a mine in Rainy River, is ran out of... you guessed it, Toronto.

A portion of Ontario is on the Manitoba grid as well, and transferring any surplus hydro on the Ontario grid is out of range.

The optics alone don't look good, but beyond that, I don't believe it makes economic sense to subsidize the most wealthy in the province.

Most people in Toronto are not "wealthy". Barrie, Ottawa, Guelph, and Oshawa all have a higher avg household income.

 

[Northern Light]

A New Deal for Toronto...

A new working group will be created.

"Recognizing these challenges, any agreement established by the new-deal working group must:

Respect and support the efficient delivery of local governance and city programs;
Protect frontline services and frontline municipal workers;
Avoid new taxes and fees on hard-working residents of the city; and
Support the delivery of shared priorities, including building affordable and attainable homes, public transit and city-enabling infrastructure."

Doesn't look very promising to me. The only alternative to not increasing taxes and fees is for the province or the federal government to provide more money.

1) The commitment is to a finalized deal being in place by the end of November; so something is coming, the gist is almost certainly already known, what's likely being discussed is tweaks and edges, and messaging.

2) The province is facing the issue of widespread, high property tax hikes this year, Durham is already out of the gate at a probable ~10%, and other regions are looking at big numbers too.
I imagine the province will try to finesse some Toronto-specific items with at least one province-wide change. I can't imagine double-digit hikes across the 905 working out well for the Ford government.

3) The idea of low or no hikes in Toronto really isn't on; I don't think. Not unless the province delivers either a massive new transfer or a huge upload. Rather, I think the effort here will be to mitigate extreme hikes/new taxes, or savage cuts.

We shall see.

Doug Ford, Olivia Chow agree to find ‘new deal’ for Toronto

Premier Doug Ford changed course on Monday, agreeing to create a working group with the city to find long-term solutions to Toronto’s deep financial challenges.

www.thestar.com

From The Star's Story on this:

**

**

Certainly nowhere near enough, but not such a bad start.

 

[christiesplits]

Ward 20 Scarborough by-election update:

Local TDSB trustee Malika Ghous has registered to run in the by-election. She was endorsed by Gary Crawford and local MP Bill Blair last election, so she should be formidable.

The runner-up to Ghous, Anna Sidiropoulos, has also registered to run.

 

[Richard White]

Local TDSB trustee Malika Ghous has registered to run in the by-election. She was endorsed by Gary Crawford and local MP Bill Blair last election, so she should be formidable.

As a Ward 20 Resident this makes me NOT want to vote for her.

One thing I hate is opportunists. If she really wanted to be a councilor she should have ran as one in the last election. She strikes me as someone who will jump ship when a better opportunity arises and I am not interested in that.

 

[christiesplits]

As a Ward 20 Resident this makes me NOT want to vote for her.

One thing I hate is opportunists. If she really wanted to be a councilor she should have ran as one in the last election. She strikes me as someone who will jump ship when a better opportunity arises and I am not interested in that.

I'm on the fence of whether or not it's opportunism, but it will definitely be interpreted as such by many voters. One of the reasons Andrea Horwath barely eked out a win in the recent Hamilton mayoral election was that people were upset with her running for mayor only four months removed from being re-elected to Queens Park.

 

[Richard White]

I'm on the fence of whether or not it's opportunism, but it will definitely be interpreted as such by many voters. One of the reasons Andrea Horwath barely eked out a win in the recent Hamilton mayoral election was that people were upset with her running for mayor only four months removed from being re-elected to Queens Park.

I will never forget when Malika made a tiktok video with one of her signs out front of my house.

It was hilarious seeing her dance around trying to seem relevant.

 

[just east of the creek]

I picked up the paper edition of the Globe tonight and noticed a letter to the editor that does not seem to be a part of the digital version. The letter is written by the Mayor of Newmarket, John Taylor. It addresses Doug Fords recent contemplation of a new financial deal for Toronto, when to date Toronto has refused to bring property taxes in line with the balance of the GTA. The letter goes on to Contend that any financial package to Toronto (without addressing the property tax imbalance) will be at the financial expense of taxpayers outside of the city.

Food for discussion and this will play well outside of the city as well.

I could not download the exact text, so I have taken a photo of the letter and uploaded it. Unorthodox I think, it presumably is acceptable.

acceptable.
.

 

[turini2]

I picked up the paper edition of the Globe tonight and noticed a letter to the editor that does not seem to be a part of the digital version. The letter is written by the Mayor of Newmarket, John Taylor. It addresses Doug Fords recent contemplation of a new financial deal for Toronto, when to date Toronto has refused to bring property taxes in line with the balance of the GTA. The letter goes on to Contend that any financial package to Toronto (without addressing the property tax imbalance) will be at the financial expense of taxpayers outside of the city.

Food for discussion and this will play well outside of the city as well.

I could not download the exact text, so I have taken a photo of the letter and uploaded it. Unorthodox I think, it presumably is acceptable.acceptable.
.

It's a very fair point, sadly "don't worry, we're only increasing your taxes to be in line with our neighbouring municipalities!" won't go down well with the electorate.

 

[picard102]

The letter goes on to Contend that any financial package to Toronto (without addressing the property tax imbalance) will be at the financial expense of taxpayers outside of the city.

Good.

 

[Northern Light]

It's a very fair point, sadly "don't worry, we're only increasing your taxes to be in line with our neighbouring municipalities!" won't go down well with the electorate.

Hamilton's preliminary tax increase for next year is over 14%; Durham Region is looking at just shy of 10%.

I think a big increase is coming in Toronto, but that may just see us keep pace.

I expect any new deal for Toronto may have some Toronto specific items; but it would not surprise me to see one major change for all cities and/or the GTA.

You can see any number of choices that could work out to have a bigger favourble impact on Toronto, but nominally be neutral.

1) The province picking up 50% of transit subsidies (Which it used to do)

2) The province uploading public housing (most of TCHC was once called MTHA (The Metro Toronto Housing Authority) and was provincial.)

Either of those moves would have an outsized impact on Toronto, but also benefit the Newmarket's of the world.

A Toronto specific change would be uploading the Gardiner/DVP and repaying the City for what it has invested in the Gardiner the last 4-5 years.

 

[Richard White]

Hamilton's preliminary tax increase for next year is over 14%; Durham Region is looking at just shy of 10%.

I think a big increase is coming in Toronto, but that may just see us keep pace.

I expect any new deal for Toronto may have some Toronto specific items; but it would surprise me to see one major change for all cities and/or the GTA.

You can see any number of choices that could work out to have a bigger favourble impact on Toronto, but nominally be neutral.

1) The province picking up 50% of transit subsidies (Which it used to do)

2) The province uploading public housing (most of TCHC was once called MTHA (The Metro Toronto Housing Authority) and was provincial.)

Either of those moves would have an outsized impact on Toronto, but also benefit the Newmarket's of the world.

A Toronto specific change would uploading the Gardiner/DVP and repaying the City for what it has invested in the Gardiner the last 4-5 years.

If anything, I can see the TTC being absorbed by Metrolinx rather than a subsidy provided. This being done in the name of "efficiency"

 

[Northern Light]

If anything, I can see the TTC being absorbed by Metrolinx rather than a subsidy provided. This being done in the name of "efficiency"

Very unlikely.

1) Metrolinx is far smaller than the TTC so any merger would be a TTC takeover of Mx.

2) I don't think the province wants to be responsible for managing bus routes at the local level.

3) That's very Toronto-specific, leaving every other municipality to pay for transit would look terrible; and merging them all with Mx is just not on.

 

[JasonParis]

Mx could pick-up the subway lines as the Ford government once intended, but it would be yet another backtrack for them.