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Mayor John Tory's Toronto

Have you notice the people who hate these events are the same people who don't want to raise their taxes for research. But will be first in line when advances in the medical field through the money is benefiting for them.
 
DarnDirtyApe said:
It's a big city; people do all kinds of things at all hours. The TTC operates on Christmas Day even though "stores and offices are closed" because people need to get around for one reason or another.
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So? People manage. So far the only "disrupted" activity mentioned here is shopping for antiques.
 
DarnDirtyApe said:
So basically your position is that people should organize their lives around these events? How about we organize these events around what is most convenient for residents instead? Do we really need a race that closes Lakeshore, Queens Quay, Front, Bay, University, Bloor, Eastern and Queen? You say "Sunday morning" but the race starts at 8:45 and last well into the afternoon. My experience has been that you have to just stay home while the event is ongoing, because both transit and car traffic end up totally messed up.

Frankly I (and I suspect most people) don't give a rat's ass about the Scotiabank Marathon, or any other marathon for that matter.
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I live in an area that has frequent road closures for various events. I've never had to stay home. If I have to drive, I plan accordingly, but otherwise getting around by foot, bike or TTC isn't an issue. If you're just hanging around at home, why not volunteer for one of the events? It's a ton of fun. Also, the roads don't stay closed the entire time -- they open up as the race goes by. Where I am, that generally means around 11:00, and on any given Sunday, traffic is pretty light until then so frankly, how many people does it actually inconvenience? Now the Indy on the other hand, that closes Lake Shore for days during the week should be rethought.
 
DarnDirtyApe said:
So you're saying that marathons should be allowed because they're inclusive, but the Santa Claus parade is not inclusive because it's "only" for families with young children? You're really tying yourself in knots here.

If Yonge is closed, there are no alternate routes because it cuts the city in half. If the Lakeshore or Gardiner are closed, all alternate routes will be jammed so you're just as screwed anyway. If I am going to see family out of town with overnight bags, transit is not a practical option. Those of us who don't live in childfree urban candy land sometimes have to drive places on the weekend, so I think it's entirely reasonable to be cautious about when and where closures happen.
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1. Re: inclusiveness. Nah, that was a bit of a straw man argument. Marathons are not inclusive; my point was that the Santa Claus parade isn't inclusive, either. I've enjoyed both (not as a marathoner nor parade participant, sadly) but to say one is more inclusive than the other is balderdash. Newly arrived Sri Lankan immigrants without kids who live in Scarborough are not going to feel included in either event. Which is OK.

2. DDA -- sorry, but do you live in Toronto? Yonge is the LEAST important of all our N-S routes. If you're going to visit the family in Markham, you go up DVP/AveRd/whatever to the 401. Lakeshore closed on a summer Sunday when Gardiner is EMPTY is no more an inconvenience than my athlete's foot.

3. If you're 'travelling to see family out of town' by car, on Sunday morning, and you can't figure out an alternative route for the first 1/10th to 1/4 of your route, I can't help you. Maybe get the family to either (a) come visit you in the city or (b) hit up Google Maps and suggest an alternative route for you?

I LOVE a closed Yonge / NYC Marathon / Boston Marathon / Cherry Blossom festival. It makes those urban spaces so much fun!
 
Riverdale Rink Rat said:
2. DDA -- sorry, but do you live in Toronto? Yonge is the LEAST important of all our N-S routes. If you're going to visit the family in Markham, you go up DVP/AveRd/whatever to the 401. Lakeshore closed on a summer Sunday when Gardiner is EMPTY is no more an inconvenience than my athlete's foot.
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YES! This is what annoys me most about this whole thing. John Tory was saying that all these runs can't be held on Yonge Street, when Yonge Street is probably the best place for these things. No one needs to drive on Yonge...there's a subway underneath running every 5 minutes!
 
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It appears that someone is not planning alternative routes when they know a problem will exist. It's easy to blame something/someone than deal with a challenge.
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The fact that there isn't an alternative route is beside the point. The idea that it's ok to shut down all public transit in the entire downtown core is acceptable under anything but apocalyptical purposes is quite moronic to me.


Please don't turn things into a "atheism rules" thing.
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No such need. At one time, it was practical idea, as going to church was the most likely reason you would be on a streetcar on a sunday. Funny though....I don't notice them out front of non-christian places of worship.


Is there some reason you can't just, you know, walk from Yonge to Spadina?
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Yea...because I'm paying a fare to take public transit. If I wanted to walk, I would be in the freaking marathon. Besides, it would be walking from Jarvis to Spadina, and then you have no idea what service you will find when you get there.

It would seem to me that there could be a lot of routes for these people who want to "run" 10 kms, for whatever reason (I won't get into how marathons are about as pointless as tattoos) that don't require paralyzing the entire surface transit system of the downtown core. That's so hilariously stupid. Why not close the Gardiner/DVP for marathons instead? It's far more practical as it doesn't require every police officer in north america to stand around the countless intersections these marathons go through while snaking their way through the entire downtown core. Plus it would be more scenic.

Hey...I have a great idea...let's campaign to have the G20 Summit in downtown Toronto permanently...and multiple times a year!!!! Won't that be fun


I'd be curious to know the rationale for 24 hour subway service when cities like London with more than twice our population shut down the tube in favour of night buses around midnight.
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Why can't we have nice things? I said a city like Toronto...which meant a city that could stand above the crowd.


I doubt the added cost to run could be justified by the ridership. Subways are great for high capacity transport but that isn't needed at 4 am.
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There's an entire thread devoted to this, and it's not as difficult either logistically or financially as you think. Besides, if we were going to be that practical, we would shut down the Sheppard line and stop construction on the new Spadina extension...and cancel the Scarb subway (again). Do you ever use the TTC??? It's packed no matter what time you use it. I catch the first 504 streetcar at 5:30 am every Sunday...it's full of people.
 
The Golem said:
This is the problem with electing a really really really old man. He just doesn't get it. A savvy politician would actually promote adult fitness, and show up in the morning to say a few words and signal the start of the event.
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For the record re "really really really old" John Tory: Jack Layton would be older by about 5 years.
 
freshcutgrass said:
There's an entire thread devoted to this, and it's not as difficult either logistically or financially as you think. Besides, if we were going to be that practical, we would shut down the Sheppard line and stop construction on the new Spadina extension...and cancel the Scarb subway (again). Do you ever use the TTC??? It's packed no matter what time you use it. I catch the first 504 streetcar at 5:30 am every Sunday...it's full of people.
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You can't judge the financial performance of the subway by how "packed" it is when you get on. The first 504 streetcar on a Sunday at 5:30am is packed because service is every 25 minutes at that point. The Sheppard subway is packed at rush hour because it only runs every 5.5 minutes at rush hour and has 4 cars (for reference, the Yonge subway runs every 2 minutes, 21 seconds at rush with 6 cars). For "packed" subways at 4am, you'd probably need one train per hour. I think most people would prefer buses every 5 minutes to a hypothetical once an hour subway at 4am.
 
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Gotta say, Mayor JoTo's year-end interviews with local outlets were of such tenor as to suggest the 'Ford-Lite' label (no pun intended) is not entirely misplaced. He maundered on about 'coming from a place where ideas get enacted quickly' to this immense bureaucracy that stifles all the goodness that he wants to make happen. That may in fact be true but it suggests he shoulda looked into the job description a bit, no? It's a passive-aggressive version of "I'm a bidnessman, bringin' bidness savvy to the politics". Okay, then.

Glad for the return of (relative) civility to politics in the city, but now that Tory's in the swamp he's gonna find the muck don't let his feet move so fast.
 
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LNahid2000 said:
For "packed" subways at 4am, you'd probably need one train per hour. I think most people would prefer buses every 5 minutes to a hypothetical once an hour subway at 4am.
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The flaw in your logic is not only that "packed" service isn't a requirement to justify providing the service...but that "packed" service is an undesirable feature in the first place.

Turning downtown Toronto's surface transit system into chaos because of a marathon is stupid.
Having transit stops in front of churches that haven't had the patronage to justify it for the last 40 years is stupid.
Not opening the subway on sundays until 9:00 is stupid.
Cutting the TTC budget while record ridership increases are happening is stupid.
Spending an extra $1.6 billion on a 3-stop subway extension instead of a better 7-stop LRT extension is stupid
Not giving the 504 a ROW is stupid.

The list of utter stupidities are endless.
 
hper said:
Gotta say, Mayor JoTo's year-end interviews with local outlets were of such tenor as to suggest the 'Ford-Lite' label (no pun intended) is not entirely misplaced.

It's a passive-aggressive version of "I'm a bidnessman, bringin' bidness savvy to the politics". Okay, then.
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With Tory, you get all the imprudence of a Ford, without any of the theatre.

Sadly, we will never know the pleasure of a "you just attacked Kuwait" speech, or a "I've got enough to eat at home" gem.

We've be Robbed!!!
 
freshcutgrass said:
No such need. At one time, it was practical idea, as going to church was the most likely reason you would be on a streetcar on a sunday. Funny though....I don't notice them out front of non-christian places of worship.
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Bwahahahaha... you realize why this is, right? Right?

The rest of your screed was a pretty entitled view of the world, but this was just AWESOME. Thanks for that!
 
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