Lack of meaningful Passenger Rail service outside the Quebec-Windsor Corridor

[micheal_can]

I agree. East of White River it's nothing spectacular (northern Ontario nice, but that's it).

I am guessing you did not enjoy the trip between Cartier and Bisco.

Neither do I. I think they do the yard work for Algoma Steel but, beyond a few forestry carloads, I don't there's much else. Whoever owns the Ring of Fire (I loose track) announced SSM as the site for the Chromium refinery so maybe they are hanging on for that.

Yes, it would make sense that once that gets going the ACR would be used for it. My assumption is the crossing would be put back in.

If you think you can turn White River and Chapleau into non-fishing/hunting tourist destinations, there's a job for you at NOTO or Destinations Northern Ontario.

...where do I apply?
And would they even want to hear it?

 

[lenaitch]

I am guessing you did not enjoy the trip between Cartier and Bisco.

I mean, anywhere in northern Ontario is scenic as far as I'm concerned, but nothing compares with the hills and views around Superior. When I worked there I would sometimes comment that 'and they're paying me to do this'.

 

[micheal_can]

I mean, anywhere in northern Ontario is scenic as far as I'm concerned, but nothing compares with the hills and views around Superior. When I worked there I would sometimes comment that 'and they're paying me to do this'.

Which is why aspiring for more than the Budd cars is pointless. However, aspiring that the weekend runs of it are full is not. We are talking 100 people vs 900+

 

[micheal_can]

I have made a mistake.The Agawa Canyon train carries 1500when full. The trip I was on, which was the last day of the season was only 900.

 

[lenaitch]

And would they even want to hear it?

Maybe for a while, until they got tired of looking at the pile of dead horses in the back parking lot who were obviously beaten to death.

 

[micheal_can]

Maybe for a while, until they go tired of looking at the pile of dead horses in the back parking lot who were obviously beaten to death.

Maybe it is because the instrument they were using was not what was needed to get the horse to gallop. If you only have one tool, you will find it pretty useless for many tasks.

 

[lenaitch]

As an aside, CPKC recently removed the diamond across the old ACR at Franz. How the Agawa service hangs on, I really don't understand.... a few trains in Autumn in no way covers the cost of that line. There is no end to end business on the ACR any more.

I forgot to mention that a FN group has been trying to get backers to re-start a SSM-Hearst passenger train. I haven't heard much lately. I do recall CPKC saying that they would put the diamond back in if there was traffic (I imagine they wouldn't have much choice).

Which is why aspiring for more than the Budd cars is pointless. However, aspiring that the weekend runs of it are full is not. We are talking 100 people vs 900+

I heard a piece on CBC radio today where a reported rode Train 185 (the w/b run). They mentioned passengers using it for backcountry tripping and to access remote fishing/hunting lodges. This similar to what was lost when the SSM-Hearst train was cancelled and similar to flag service on PBX and even Canadian.

I'm not saying that the 'Budd train' has no tourist potential, I just don't think it has as much as you do. The Agawa Canyon Tour train is just that; it's not a passenger train that has a tourist clientele; it is a tour train. You can't use it to schlepp a canoe into the bush. It runs only during high tourist season.

 

[micheal_can]

I forgot to mention that a FN group has been trying to get backers to re-start a SSM-Hearst passenger train. I haven't heard much lately. I do recall CPKC saying that they would put the diamond back in if there was traffic (I imagine they wouldn't have much choice).

I remember seeing that somewhere too. IIRC they removed it for maintenance costs. If/when it becomes needed, it could be put back in.

I heard a piece on CBC radio today where a reported rode Train 185 (the w/b run). They mentioned passengers using it for backcountry tripping and to access remote fishing/hunting lodges. This similar to what was lost when the SSM-Hearst train was cancelled and similar to flag service on PBX and even Canadian.

I'm not saying that the 'Budd train' has no tourist potential, I just don't think it has as much as you do. The Agawa Canyon Tour train is just that; it's not a passenger train that has a tourist clientele; it is a tour train. You can't use it to schlepp a canoe into the bush. It runs only during high tourist season.

What I want is for it to be profitable or break even in the eyes of people like @Urban Sky. I want all routes to be that. So, how we get there is to find a way to fill the seats. One of those ways is drawing people just to ride it.

 

[C_Johnson_1995]

Even if Quebec splits (unlikely), you can still run a train across an international border.

Sure, but that causes a lot of extra friction and cuts your overall demand. It also isn't fair to expect taxpayers across Canada to see their taxes pay for infrastructure in a separatist region when their own areas are deprived of transport options, even busses. This is why you have to let the provinces (ON, QC, and maybe Alberta someday though I'm not sure if Edmt-Cgy can support it) build LGVs to meet their own needs first, with potential for interconnection with a federal operator later.

 

[Urban Sky]

Can we move this “what happens if Quebec separates?” nonsense into a political fantasy thread?

 

[crs1026]

What I want is for it to be profitable or break even in the eyes of people like @Urban Sky. I want all routes to be that. So, how we get there is to find a way to fill the seats. One of those ways is drawing people just to ride it.

With due respect for the indisputable cosmic powers and influence of @Urban Sky, the people you want to reach are those with the necessary capital available. They will likely respond that even a full train does not generate the wider benefit or explicit revenue and ROI that would incent them to invest or even subsidize the trains that you imagine.

- Paul

 

[Mihairokov]

I can only buy so many $11 sandwiches to drag VIA rail to solvency, but even then I don't think the ultimate goal of a service like VIA is to break-even anyway.

 

[Urban Sky]

I can only buy so many $11 sandwiches to drag VIA rail to solvency, but even then I don't think the ultimate goal of a service like VIA is to break-even anyway.

Where VIA directly competes with private operators, this is not an unreasonable expectation and where it does (i.e., the Corridor or tourism-focused services during the summer months in the Rockies), it already operates profitable (~130% recovery of direct costs pre-COVID for the Corridor, 90-100% year-round for the Canadian), so that barrier is nothing to be afraid of…

 

[micheal_can]

I can only buy so many $11 sandwiches to drag VIA rail to solvency, but even then I don't think the ultimate goal of a service like VIA is to break-even anyway.

I am guessing you did not read how w are talking of the train 185/186. There are no sandwiches for sale. However, if we want to speak of subsidizing, each route should be able to have a full train cover the expenses to run it.

 

[Mihairokov]

I am guessing you did not read how w are talking of the train 185/186.

I didn't, no, I was speaking more broadly about VIA in general.