King Street (Streetcar Transit Priority)

[pstogios]

Absolutely - discuss it, and discuss how to improve it.

But that doesn't mean you can make stuff up and falsify data like "an adherence rate of 50% (or less)". Far more than 50% of cars are being diverted elsewhere. And while the number of cars running through an intersection is annoying, it's not 50%.

Then you claim there are blocked intersections at nearly every cycle ... which is odd, as the only blocked intersections I regularly see are because traffic is backed on on cross-streets, like Jarvis. Which long pre-existed the pilot. And even then it's not most cycles ... let alone nearly every.

Perhaps you should apply the scientific method here - and look at the data that has been collected and presented.

I never claimed that the illegal drive through rate is 50%, I said 50% or less. It still happens far too often. I walk by King and Spadina daily and see it too often. MetroMan is doing a good job of documenting this so I defer to his video observations,

As for blocked intersections, I am specifically talking about King and Spadina, and I’m talking about the light cycles when there is a streetcar loading at the westbound stop. I don’t have the time to document this but every time I walk by there and a streetcar is loading, left turning cars will block the intersection at least 50% of the time. I am quite sure of that.

If you think this is acceptable then I’m not sure why we even have rules, crosswalks, traffic lights, etc. Because it’s chaos there.

 

[steveintoronto]

It still happens far too often.

It's flagrant, and being done by a specific cohort who know that it is. I've challenged a few of them, and they just look away, they know what they're doing.

If you think this is acceptable then I’m not sure why we even have rules, crosswalks, traffic lights, etc. Because it’s chaos there.

It becomes the broken window hypothesis:

Broken windows theory, academic theory proposed by James Q. Wilson and George Kelling in 1982 that used broken windows as a metaphor for disorder within neighbourhoods. Their theory links disorder and incivility within a community to subsequent occurrences of serious crime.

broken windows theory | Description & Results | Britannica.com
The vast majority of drivers wouldn't jump a red light because one idiot does, but some will. Where you see the protocol breaking down most right now is with cyclists (and I'm an avid old-school one, I follow safety protocol). One will jump the light, and then the rest of the sheep do it. 'If it doesn't apply to him/her, then it doesn't apply to me' oblivious to what the Law, protocol or safety demands. And that's what we're now seeing on King, a slow erosion away from observing the law, rather than an acclimatization to it.

It needs enforcement, on a continual basis. Or a complete clamp down on vehicular accessibility. Any potential help from QP disappeared with the present regime there.

The third busiest transit route in Toronto (after subway Line 1 and 2) and Council blew it when the Wynne regime was still in office. Application under
PART XVI PILOT PROJECTS of the HTA offers incredibly powerful clauses, and lasting twelve years after inception. That would have offered multiples more time until the present Con fliction is voted out of QP, and a pro-transit regime elected. The clauses allow unique traffic light arrangements, signs, and laws controlling traffic movement.

Time limit
(6) A regulation made under this section must provide that it is revoked no later than the twelfth anniversary of the day the regulation is filed.

https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90h08#BK382

 

[nfitz]

It doesn't have to be. All it takes is another Councillor to second a motion moved by a Councillor for it to be put to the Council.

Yes, I'm aware of that. What I'm not aware of is why this would be an issue now that it's permanent, but that it wasn't an issue last year when there was similar construction on Adelaide during the King pilot - which surely would have been potentially a more sensitive issue.

Why would that happen this time, when no one raised it for Adelaide during the pilot - when even the TTC found Adelaide so poor, it had started diverting it's 140-series express buses to King? Please answer the question this time - rather than dodging it, and providing an answer to a question not asked. Also please use your own words and not quote large amounts of irrelevant material.

 

[AHK]

Yes, I'm aware of that. What I'm not aware of is why this would be an issue now that it's permanent, but that it wasn't an issue last year when there was similar construction on Adelaide during the King pilot - which surely would have been potentially a more sensitive issue.

Why would that happen this time, when no one raised it for Adelaide during the pilot - when even the TTC found Adelaide so poor, it had started diverting it's 140-series express buses to King? Please answer the question this time - rather than dodging it, and providing an answer to a question not asked. Also please use your own words and not quote large amounts of irrelevant material.

From my recollection, neither Adelaide and Wellington Streets were under construction in the same area at the same time last year, nor was Adelaide reduced to one single lane, shared between vehicles and bicycles during the construction.

Living where we do, we do not normally drive much in the downtown area, however in a couple of recent trips from the east to the west side of the downtown core over the past month, we experienced traffic congestion trying to get from the Jarvis to Spadina / Bathurst areas that we had never endured heading eastwards on Adelaide.

So using the experience along Adelaide last year as a predictor of what may come with both Wellington and Richmond under construction at the same time may not be entirely valid. Also - was Adelaide reduced to a single, shared shared between bicycles and motorized vehicles during its construction last year?

 

[nfitz]

... nor was Adelaide reduced to one single lane, shared between vehicles and bicycles during the construction.

Here's a photo I took of Adelaide with only one lane of traffic,in November 2018.

Traffic was horrific, especially in PM peak, but there was no uproar. I doubt that AM peak will be as bad, or that TTC and city would be as sensitive to complaints in the future, than they were during the pilot.

I think the claims that this will lead to debate in council (heated or otherwise), when the Adelaide construction during the pilot didn't, are unfounded.

 

[innsertnamehere]

An update on upcoming replacements projects planned for Wellington Street West and Richmond Street West (from an update being prepared for residents of our building). The information is being posted here because of their possible consequences for the King Street pilot and overflow traffic along the no through traffic zone.

1. Wellington Street West Water Main Replacement

The City has arranged with The Well project that, as part of their overall development, the consortium building The Well will also replace the Wellington Street West water main between Spadina and Portland Streets. The project will involve lane closures, with one traffic lane to be maintained in each direction. Parking on Wellington Street in the area involved will also be impacted, and while the sidewalks are expected to remain open, there may be some temporary impacts on the north sidewalk while the local services connections to the buildings on the north side of Wellington are replaced. The project is expected to start later this month, or in early June, and run through November of this year. Work will start at the Spadina end of the street, and progress westward towards Portland. At this point, the Wellington Street water main replacement project is ready and waiting to start as soon as the construction permits are issued.


2. Richmond Street West Water Main Replacement

The larger, and more consequential water main replacement project will be on Richmond Street West, from York to Bathurst Streets. The project, to replace the existing 143 year old watermain, is expected to take fifteen months, starting in June 2019, running through August, 2020. The project is to be undertaken in two stages, from Bathurst to Spadina, June - December 2019, and from Spadina to York Streets, November 2019 - August 2020. The impacts of this project on local traffic are expected to be material, as there will only be ONE WESTBOUND LANE open for vehicles in the affected areas on Richmond Street. Not only that, while the dedicated bicycle lane is to remain available from John to York streets during the construction, due to the reduced width in the Richmond Street roadway between John and Bathurst Streets, the bicycle lane will be closed in the area being impacted by the construction, and both bicycles and motorized vehicles will HAVE TO SHARE THE ACTIVE TRAFFIC LANE in this area.

Further information may be obtained at: www.toronto.ca/downtownconstructionprojects

Well that Richmond construction is going to suck for me. Guess I'll be biking on King Street to work for the next year and a half if not more given how often these watermain projects take longer than scheduled. I'm already having to cut down to King at Bathurst as the watermain work has already started between Niagara and Bathurst on Richmond.

Richmond/Adelaide are just going to be completely screwed this year as I believe the TTC is planning to replace their streetcar tracks on Adelaide this summer as well.

The Wellington one doesn't look like that big of a deal as that stretch of Wellington is only 1 lane in each direction currently anyway.

 

[DSC]

Well that Richmond construction is going to suck for me. Guess I'll be biking on King Street to work for the next year and a half if not more given how often these watermain projects take longer than scheduled. I'm already having to cut down to King at Bathurst as the watermain work has already started between Niagara and Bathurst on Richmond.

Richmond/Adelaide are just going to be completely screwed this year as I believe the TTC is planning to replace their streetcar tracks on Adelaide this summer as well.

The Wellington one doesn't look like that big of a deal as that stretch of Wellington is only 1 lane in each direction currently anyway.

Adelaide tracks are 2023, or so TTC say. I will believe that when I see it.

Wellington will not get new tracks until early 2020, now that hydro are finishing there, Enbridge are starting!
.

 

[dowlingm]

A question one might ask is why TTC don't take advantage of the King priority, and move one direction of some 140 series movements onto King Street on a scheduled basis, and move them off Richmond or Adelaide...?
141 (Peter-Jarvis), 142 (Simcoe-Church), 145 (Bathurst-Jarvis) west-east loops run entirely within KSP zone.
143, 144 would be a bit trickier as there is no direct connection between King and the Richmond/Adelaide ramps.

 

[ShonTron]

Well that Richmond construction is going to suck for me. Guess I'll be biking on King Street to work for the next year and a half if not more given how often these watermain projects take longer than scheduled. I'm already having to cut down to King at Bathurst as the watermain work has already started between Niagara and Bathurst on Richmond.

Richmond/Adelaide are just going to be completely screwed this year as I believe the TTC is planning to replace their streetcar tracks on Adelaide this summer as well.

The Wellington one doesn't look like that big of a deal as that stretch of Wellington is only 1 lane in each direction currently anyway.

Replace, or remove the streetcar tracks? I think the only sections of Adelaide that the TTC wants to hold on to is the very short segment into Charlotte Loop off Spadina, and between Victoria and Church, part of a short-turn the TTC can use for the 501 (such as during parades, marathons, and last Sunday's 10K run). That work will probably coincide with moving the eastbound cycletrack to the north side of Adelaide.

 

[innsertnamehere]

TO Inview has TTC trackwork listed this year on Adelaide from Charlotte to Bay. No idea if that means anything will actually happen or not.

 

[nfitz]

A question one might ask is why TTC don't take advantage of the King priority, and move one direction of some 140 series movements onto King Street on a scheduled basis, and move them off Richmond or Adelaide...?

A good question - at least for the Adelaide service. Though it's a bit of a walk to Queen.

I figured there was no point raising the issue, as the pilot wouldn't necessarily be made permanent, and the TTC already stating that they were planning to study terminating all the downtown express runs, depending on the implementation of the Line 1 ATC project and new low floor streetcars. But that report is still a couple of years away ...

 

[dowlingm]

A good question - at least for the Adelaide service. Though it's a bit of a walk to Queen.

I figured there was no point raising the issue, as the pilot wouldn't necessarily be made permanent, and the TTC already stating that they were planning to study terminating all the downtown express runs, depending on the implementation of the Line 1 ATC project and new low floor streetcars. But that report is still a couple of years away ...

Given how things worked out for TTC since mid 2017, "viable improvements" are still some ways off...

 

[DSC]

TO Inview has TTC trackwork listed this year on Adelaide from Charlotte to Bay. No idea if that means anything will actually happen or not.

Yes, but its postponed to 2023. TOinView also has Victoria as 2018 and that maybe 2020 or 2021 and it has Wellington as 2019, or had. Its now suppposed to be 2020. If the Citys own site has wrong dates one can see why things get screwed up!

H

 

[DSC]

Coming to Budget Committee next week

2) New Future of King Street account (CTP419-03) City Council on April 16 and 17, 2019, approved that King Street continue to operate as a Transit Priority Corridor between Bathurst Street and Jarvis Street, along with the incorporation of improvements to the public realm in the near-term through the durability and quality of public realm materials, and in the longer-term through streetscaping improvements in coordination with private development and the capital program. Transportation Services 2019 Capital Budget and 2019-2028 Adjustments Page 4 of 5 The capital funding required to make permanent and incorporate improvements to the King Street Transit Priority Corridor is expected to be approximately $1.5 million (excluding HST recoveries). This funding is needed for improvements to public realm spaces and TTC stops. Funding for these elements is not currently identified within the Capital Budget and will be funded from the Public Realm Reserve Fund. The proposed increase of funds will result in an increase of $1.5 million gross to the 2019 Transportation Approved Capital Budget, with committed cash flows of $1 million in 2019 and $0.5 million in 2020, fully funded by the Public Realm Reserve Fund. To fund these public realm improvements, a new Future of King Street capital project will be created with 2019 total costs of $1.5 million gross.

From: http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/decisio...on=doPrepare&meetingId=15870#Meeting-2019.BU7

 

[W. K. Lis]

Using the complaints about the King Street Pilot as a base, wonder how much business was "lost" when the city closed most of the downtown streets to traffic because of the Raptors parade on June 17th?