King Street (Streetcar Transit Priority)

[Rainforest]

The key question is.....how much time do the streetcars lose because of the drivers who ignore the signs? If the answer is “a lot”, then we need more enforcement. If the answer is “not much”, then there’s no hit and no foul....and maybe that’s a good win-win between the interests of motorists and the interests of transit riders.. No need for a war on the auto if we don’t need one. I’m sure that the police, with so many conflicting priorities and urgent calls to respond to, are taking just this approach.

Agreed in general, but I have an issue with the motorists who rush into an intersection they surely can't clear before the traffic signal changes, and then get stuck in the middle blocking everyone else. They block the streetcars, they block the regular cars, and of course they greatly inconvenience the pedestrians. All for either minor gains for themselves, or no gain at all (once the traffic signal changes, they are still crawling behind the same car in front of them).

 

[MetroMan]

I work on King in the streetcar priority zone and see maybe one car every other day, disobeying the rules. Out of those, perhaps every 4th transgressor is caught by the police. I have no idea what your rants are about. King St is a success and there's so little car traffic on it these days. Now if they could resolve the cars blocking pedestrian crossings issue, that would be great.

I don't think you spend enough time outside man. I see easily dozens a day disobeying the rules. I walk my dog along King in the morning, then again around rush hour, and once more at night. Cars lined up behind the streetcar go through. Drivers following other drivers in caravans of 5 or more go through illegally in one shot. Then you have taxis and couriers, who absolutely know the rules by now, pretend they're going to turn, look for police, then gun it through.

I'm not just saying this. I've got the receipts:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1122572758746005505

King St. is working regardless of the lawbreakers because most traffic has stayed off King. But if we get distracted, and enforcement remains light, drivers will return to King and we'll lose the benefits that we've gained with the pilot. Meanwhile, I film these in preparation for the upcoming community consultations where the permanent layout of the street will be discussed. That drivers so easily ignore the rules lays out the case that signage isn't enough. We must rebuild the street itself to discourage cross town driving, leaving only narrow, dead end lanes for local traffic only.

 

[steveintoronto]

King St. is working regardless of the lawbreakers because most traffic has stayed off King.

This is a crucial point being missed by many. The 'many' state (gist) "Well the scofflaws don't seem to be ruining it"...completely missing the fact that it IS the *Scofflaws*...at the expense of everyone else, who are doing it. Which is exactly the point to begin with: This is for the Majority of persons' benefit, not the Minority's.

It's like accepting the number of cheats on the TTC because "the majority comply". Try that with Revenue Canada!

Out of those, perhaps every 4th transgressor is caught by the police. I have no idea what your rants are about.

I work on King in the streetcar priority zone and see maybe one car every other day, disobeying the rules. Out of those, perhaps every 4th transgressor is caught by the police. I have no idea what your rants are about.

I've got to call your bluff on that! Seriously call it, unless you completely lack eyesight. *EVERY* reputable survey says otherwise. I'm down there a couple of times a week, and usually spend a half an hour at different intersections to watch the rate of non-compliance. It's occurs by the minute, not the day.

TPS themselves have published observations that make you a liar. Or a mistaken fool. Their legitimate claim is that they just don't have the manpower or budget to enforce it.

And where are Tory's repeatedly claimed "Police Act enabled Traffic Wardens"? It's been two years now!

Mayor Tory wants special constable status for Toronto's new traffic ...
Proposed budget includes funding to hire 16 traffic wardens | CP24.com
Toronto to get traffic wardens to help ease congestion at major ...
Mayor Tory pushes forward on 'traffic warden' plan by sending letter to ...
Police board passes Mayor Tory's plan for civilian traffic wardens
Mayor Tory asks Wynne to grant enhanced powers to TTC
Toronto drivers can't stop blocking intersections - blogTO
etc, etc, etc...

And the TPS take on this:
King Street pilot project: Toronto police face 'unique challenge' when it ...
Video of drivers ignoring King Street pilot has critic questioning police ...
than 6600 tickets handed to drivers for violating King St ... - Toronto Star
So many drivers are ignoring the new signs on King St. - blogTO

By Jenna MoonStaff Reporter
Fri., April 6, 2018

Two days after a Star photographer filmed dozens of motorists ignoring the King St. transit pilot rules, Toronto Police have released statistics on the number of tickets and charges laid.
[...]
Over five 15-minute intervals, a Star photographer filmed five intersections during Tuesday’s morning rush hour, clocking seven to 13 drivers passing through each intersection illegally. While each offence comes with a $110-fine and two demerit points, none of the drivers filmed were seen to be ticketed.
[...]

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...o-drivers-disobeying-king-st-pilot-rules.html

From my observations a year later, it did get slightly better, and then got worse again. Odd how that works, cheats realizing that they can get away with it, and then continue to flaunt the law.

Gosh, do you think any Conservatives might be aware of this? Just substitute almost any other noun in besides "drivers" and listen to their knees jerking...

 

[felix123]

I've got to call your bluff on that! Seriously call it, unless you completely lack eyesight. *EVERY* reputable survey says otherwise. I'm down there a couple of times a week, and usually spend a half an hour at different intersections to watch the rate of non-compliance. It's occurs by the minute, not the day.

TPS themselves have published observations that make you a liar. Or a mistaken fool. Their legitimate claim is that they just don't have the manpower or budget to enforce it.

And where are Tory's repeatedly claimed "Police Act enabled Traffic Wardens"? It's been two years now!

OK, a liar, a fool? I lack eyesight? That's a bit harsh. As someone who is on King more than you by your own admission, it's reasonable for me to share what I've seen. But if it triggers you, that's your problem.
Anyway, why don't you go back to writing your over-the-top "expert" *posts* about *all of your ostensible feelings as an old curmudgeon* with *tonnes* of *overused words* like *ostensible* between *asterisks*?

 

[steveintoronto]

OK, a liar, a fool? I lack eyesight? That's a bit harsh. As someone who is on King more than you by your own admission, it's reasonable for me to share what I've seen. But if it triggers you, that's your problem.
Anyway, why don't you go back to writing your over-the-top "expert" *posts* about *all of your ostensible feelings as an old curmudgeon* with *tonnes* of *overused words* like *ostensible* between *asterisks*?

lol...you can jerk all you like about my views and observations, I posted an abundance of references. Where's yours? You could be "on King Street" all you like, your claims remain that of one person, and certainly not that of the overwhelming majority.

What we need our design improvements, better signage (what is wrong with simple No-Entry signs, with an exception below it for TTC vehicles and bikes), and bollards/concrete in places to stop cars going where they should never go.

I agree. The City doesn't. That's not their plan. Plus there's the much discussed need for access for those who live on King.

Use our King Street map to learn more about the changes. Cars are not banned on King Street. While some through movements are restricted, it’s now easier for vehicles needing local access to get where they need to go on King Street. All local access to parking garages, condominiums, businesses, etc. is being maintained, and designated passenger loading zones and taxi stands are available at all times.

https://www.toronto.ca/city-governm...anning-studies-initiatives/king-street-pilot/

Watch the King Street pilot explainer video .

And perhaps making cameras legal for enforcing running through the intersections.

Red Light Cameras are in the HTA, it's been detailed and discussed many times in this forum, but there are no other categories for the use of cameras at intersections in the HTA. There are now for school zones.
Toronto rolls out photo radar in school zones - The Globe and Mail

As to why the City didn't apply under the "Pilot" section of the HTA at a time that QP was receptive to doing so just shows how dysfunctional the City is. Good luck trying to get anything progressive for King or for any traffic imbroglios under the present Ford regime.

 

[felix123]

lol...you can jerk all you like about my views and observations, I posted an abundance of references. Where's yours? You could be "on King Street" all you like, your claims remain that of one person, and certainly not that of the overwhelming majority.

As you were...

So what you're saying is, you can dish it out but you sure as hell can't take it. Gotcha.

 

[steveintoronto]

So what you're saying is, you can dish it out but you sure as hell can't take it. Gotcha.

Take what? Here's what you wrote:

I work on King in the streetcar priority zone and see maybe one car every other day, disobeying the rules.

That's an exceptional talent you have there...

 

[dowlingm]

 

[steveintoronto]

Just up:
King Street Update: March-April 2019 Part III
by Steve

 

[AHK]

An update on upcoming replacements projects planned for Wellington Street West and Richmond Street West (from an update being prepared for residents of our building). The information is being posted here because of their possible consequences for the King Street pilot and overflow traffic along the no through traffic zone.

1. Wellington Street West Water Main Replacement

The City has arranged with The Well project that, as part of their overall development, the consortium building The Well will also replace the Wellington Street West water main between Spadina and Portland Streets. The project will involve lane closures, with one traffic lane to be maintained in each direction. Parking on Wellington Street in the area involved will also be impacted, and while the sidewalks are expected to remain open, there may be some temporary impacts on the north sidewalk while the local services connections to the buildings on the north side of Wellington are replaced. The project is expected to start later this month, or in early June, and run through November of this year. Work will start at the Spadina end of the street, and progress westward towards Portland. At this point, the Wellington Street water main replacement project is ready and waiting to start as soon as the construction permits are issued.


2. Richmond Street West Water Main Replacement

The larger, and more consequential water main replacement project will be on Richmond Street West, from York to Bathurst Streets. The project, to replace the existing 143 year old watermain, is expected to take fifteen months, starting in June 2019, running through August, 2020. The project is to be undertaken in two stages, from Bathurst to Spadina, June - December 2019, and from Spadina to York Streets, November 2019 - August 2020. The impacts of this project on local traffic are expected to be material, as there will only be ONE WESTBOUND LANE open for vehicles in the affected areas on Richmond Street. Not only that, while the dedicated bicycle lane is to remain available from John to York streets during the construction, due to the reduced width in the Richmond Street roadway between John and Bathurst Streets, the bicycle lane will be closed in the area being impacted by the construction, and both bicycles and motorized vehicles will HAVE TO SHARE THE ACTIVE TRAFFIC LANE in this area.

Further information may be obtained at: www.toronto.ca/downtownconstructionprojects

 

[steveintoronto]

The information is being posted here because of their possible consequences for the King Street pilot and overflow traffic along the no through traffic zone.

This is going to make for some heated debate in Council, doubtless. Anyone wish to wager on Council caving to the car conflagration? Or will this be a blight to Fred's Not Here rather than a blessing? Fred might get more than what he wished for.

 

[nfitz]

This is going to make for some heated debate in Council, doubtless.

How? Council already approved making the pilot permanent, and the budget for these road works. I don't see anything in the council agenda that would start this debate.

Also they were doing the Adelaide portion of the Water Main Replacement during much of the time the pilot was going on - which was making traffic there so bad that the express buses were detouring on King for months. https://wx.toronto.ca/inter/it/news...86edac6bae05b013852582ba00513410?OpenDocument - that didn't lead to any particular debate, or issues along King.

 

[steveintoronto]

How?

A motion to temporarily 'accommodate' displaced drivers from the construction zones. How's the TIFF looking of late? There's nothing definitive about the King Street Project. I wish it were otherwise. The motion already passed merely makes the present status permanent. (Edit: Even this is time limited) It doesn't enshrine any new or more powerful strictures in any way.

Toronto city council also voted unanimously to pass a motion put forward by Mayor John Tory to continue to monitor and assess the performance of the project.

Some retrospect: (note the date)(and I hold a particular couple of councillors as being responsible for this, although it takes a majority in Council to vote on it)

TIFF KING ST CLOSURE 'UNLIKELY' NEXT YEAR
DAVE BRADLEY
Friday, September 8th 2017 - 3:19 pm

The mess that is King Street during TIFF may not happen next year.

Toronto Mayor John Tory was speaking on CP24 when he suggested things could be different in 2018.

"With the King Street changes that are coming in terms of trying to move the transit vehicles better, you are unlikely to see this sort of thing next year because King Street will have changed in a way that probably won’t allow this to happen," says Tory.

He's talking about the pilot project that will put an emphasis on streetcars, giving them priority over cars and trucks on King.

It starts on November 13th, and will run for a full year.

While Tory says his office has heard it's fair share of complaints about the closure, overall people are supportive of TIFF.

"It's one of those things that's an acceptable price to pay, as long as it's not every week."

http://www.iheartradio.ca/newstalk-1010/news/tiff-king-st-closure-unlikely-next-year-1.3261668

"overall people are supportive of TIFF". Really? Not according to polls as per diverting the 504.

 

[nfitz]

A motion to temporarily 'accommodate' displaced drivers from the construction zones.

I see no such motion in the agenda. Why would that happen this time, when no one raised it for Adelaide during the pilot - when even the TTC found Adelaide so poor, it had started diverting it's 140-series express buses to King!

 

[steveintoronto]

I see no such motion in the agenda.

It doesn't have to be. All it takes is another Councillor to second a motion moved by a Councillor for it to be put to the Council.

It's termed "Motion to Introduce Motion without Notice "

Edit: Before this goes 'circular' with some posters:

Motion without notice New business submitted to Council by a Member after the agenda closing. Because they do not appear on the agenda, they must be considered urgent.

https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/9558-handbook-volume2.pdf pg 8

Between the main agenda closing and noon the business
day before the meeting – Motion without Notice
Because these Motions ask Council to consider matters without
notice to the public (i.e., they did not appear on the published
agenda), they must be urgent. If they are not deemed urgent the
City Clerk will submit them to the relevant Committee.
During the meeting – Motion without Notice
A Member can also submit Motions without Notice during the
meeting itself. Since there is NO public notice and NO
opportunity for public comment, the rules require these Motions
to be truly urgent:
• A Member must provide a reason for urgent
consideration of the Motion.
• A Member must obtain the consent of the Speaker to
introduce the Motion. The Speaker's decision is not
appealable.
• City Council must agree to add the Motion, with at least
30 votes in favour of doing so.
Complete instructions on how to prepare Notices of Motions are
included in Appendix 3A. The instructions are also available at

http://insideto.toronto.ca/secretariat/staffreport/index.htm

.

https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/9558-handbook-volume2.pdf Pg 31

Late edit: On further consideration, and the date of the manual, this might now be reduced since the size of Council is virtually halved:

City Council must agree to add the Motion, with at least
30 votes in favour of doing so.

Interestingly, there's no mention of it in the revised City of Toronto Act https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/06c11