News   Nov 28, 2024
 382     0 
News   Nov 28, 2024
 351     0 
News   Nov 28, 2024
 466     1 

King Street (Streetcar Transit Priority)

...all over Toronto we mix them. Look at Queens Quay, where we add markings and lights for cyclists, but then also invite pedestrians to use the same space. I ride up and down Sherbourne and at every bus stop bikes and pedestrians mix.
As noted many times in this and other forums, QQ is a freakin' disaster, for cyclists, pedestrians, and cars. Sherbourne barely works, as does Roncesvalles.

Could the city realistically ban cyclists from King St? It might be necessary, since it’s only a matter of time, or an icy patch, before a cyclists is pulled under the streetcar.
I've seen it happen! I chronicled it happening in the General Cycling string. The guy didn't go down, he recovered his balance, but his bars got jammed between the streetcar and wooden planters just west of MEC. He was being a jerk, and I purposely let him go first. There's no way I was going to take the risk.

Someone is going to be life-altered or killed very soon on King due to the pathetic way it's laid out at present.
 
As noted many times in this and other forums, QQ is a freakin' disaster, for cyclists, pedestrians, and cars. Sherbourne barely works, as does Roncesvalles.

I've seen it happen! I chronicled it happening in the General Cycling string. The guy didn't go down, he recovered his balance, but his bars got jammed between the streetcar and wooden planters just west of MEC. He was being a jerk, and I purposely let him go first. There's no way I was going to take the risk.

Someone is going to be life-altered or killed very soon on King due to the pathetic way it's laid out at present.
Okay, but is there any road outside of highways where we ban cyclists? We can’t even keep them off the sidewalks, even when it’s those nearly vagrants on their e-bikes.
 
What is always missed when asking why there's no bike lane on King is that the biggest mode of transportation isn't the streetcar, it's pedestrians. Pedestrians outnumber streetcar riders by at least 3:1.

OK this makes no sense because every person on the planet is a pedestrian. You're double/triple/quadruple counting stuff. By that logic every road in the city should be pedestrianized. Again, makes no sense. Every pedestrian that happens to live walking distance to work still needs the streetcar at some point or the other. If not them, their colleagues need it. There's a huge difference between getting to downtown from Liberty Village in an hour versus 20 minutes, whereas walking speed of pedestrians barely change whether the sidewalks are large or not. That's why the streetcar and cycling improvements have huge economic importance. You're misdefining problem.
 
Okay, but is there any road outside of highways where we ban cyclists? We can’t even keep them off the sidewalks, even when it’s those nearly vagrants on their e-bikes.
It's a very good question, and it comes back to banning vehicles altogether on King Street, save for those excepted. (Local delivery, residents with permit, etc)

Where your claim for "room for cycle paths" could come from for King is if *vehicle traffic* was only one way one lane in alternating directions each major block. This would allow a bi-directional cycling lane the other side of the road, but of course, it would also require crossing the street at every major intersection.

There would be the option of of a single cycle lane opposing direction the side vehicular traffic is banned, and bikes sharing the vehicular lane remaining the other side and direction.

Frankly though, as an avid cyclist who hasn't owned a vehicle or had a licence to drive in this jurisdiction for decades (and only miss it for highway driving to relieve others long-distance)(I've had licences abroad that have now expired), with the 'cycle express lanes' on Adelaide and Richmond, albeit poorly policed, King Street isn't needed for cyclists. You want to get to a business mid-block on King? Cycle up/down the nearest intersecting street, and walk on the sidewalk with your bike the rest of the way.

King is intended to be a *transit mall*, and what space is left should be for pedestrians. The only access mounted cyclists should expect is where vehicles are also allowed. That being said, it's my belief that pedestrian spaces should also be controlled such that walking willy-nilly into streetcar traffic is prevented, or we'll end-up with the same 5 kph speed limit imposed on trams in the core section of Bourke Street Mall in Melbourne.

Bourke Street Mall is a *destination* for various routes, not a major transit artery like Toronto's King Street.

Edit: Note from the video @ 1:00 minute the signs, one of them banning bicycles through that controlled core section.

The "Give Way to Pedestrians" in that section deems it a *Pedestrian Mall w/ Trams*, not a *Transit Mall w/ Pedestrians* something that has caused endless grief for operation of the trams in that section, and the imposed walking speed for trams, flashing of lights, and clanging of bells continuously through that section.


upload_2018-9-25_8-44-44.png


Also note that the continuing section beyond the pedestrian mall core that does allow vehicular traffic and cycling lanes (width of street far greater than King St) bans vehicles from running along the tram tracks, only allows crossing them.
 

Attachments

  • upload_2018-9-25_8-44-44.png
    upload_2018-9-25_8-44-44.png
    23.1 KB · Views: 720
Last edited:
I do hate Wikipedia as a source of expertise on anything. But reading your link,

"A transit mall is a street, or set of streets, in a city or town along which automobile traffic is prohibited or greatly restricted and only public transit vehicles, bicycles, and pedestrians are permitted."

Do any transit malls prohibit bicycles? Looks like pedestrians are the last on this list, not the first.
 
What is always missed when asking why there's no bike lane on King is that the biggest mode of transportation isn't the streetcar, it's pedestrians. Pedestrians outnumber streetcar riders by at least 3:1. The population on King West from Bathurst to University has grown from the low single digit thousands to the high tens of thousands and continues to grow. This without mentioning the surge in employment on King in this stretch. Sidewalks are far too narrow to support the existing pedestrian density, let alone what's coming when mega projects like BIG and Mirvish are completed.

If that's the case why are you always on the record calling for more expanded patios for the private businesses along that stretch of road? It's more than hypocritical to complain about what you're complaining about and be super excited for an expanded restaurant row whose special interests pay pennies on the dollar for wasting road space.

The redevelopment of King Street must take pedestrians into account. This is why sidewalks have been widened in portions of the pilot — though not enough is being done due to special interests that continue to maintain bus parking in front of the theatres, the segment with the narrowest sidewalks.

This really makes it clear that the pedestrian has no voice in city politics. Somehow, the cyclists have this massive lobby but there is nobody speaking up for pedestrians, which is ironic since we are all pedestrians at some point.

What a joke! Why single out "special interests" who want bus parking when you have nobody local talent and their lobby at dysfunctional city hall letting them fill the road with ******* pool noodles and lawn gnomes???
 
I do hate Wikipedia as a source of expertise on anything. But reading your link,

"A transit mall is a street, or set of streets, in a city or town along which automobile traffic is prohibited or greatly restricted and only public transit vehicles, bicycles, and pedestrians are permitted."

Do any transit malls prohibit bicycles? Looks like pedestrians are the last on this list, not the first.
Not that I am aware of. Even if you do ban them, there will be someone breaking the ban like any driver does today.

I saw close to a dozen cars make illegal turns off Queen St onto Yonge on Sunday. One video I shot shows a car about to make a left turn as I stop recording.

Watch a number of cycles fly by open door at King streetcar stops in the downtown area that I was on, on Sunday and not the first time seeing this. Seen it from the sidewalk also, city wide.

A fair number of cars never looked at the signs and illegally drove through intersections this past weekend well photographing. Maybe time to put a website up "I fail to read signs/disobey the law" and post photos and videos of these fools.
 
The thing is, signs do nothing but guide those who willingly want to be guided. What we need are hundreds of traffic constables at the intersections, ensuring everyone follows the rules, and infrastructure that dissuades those from breaking them, such as the rising bollards after buses we see cracking up cars in London, UK.
 
The thing is, signs do nothing but guide those who willingly want to be guided. What we need are hundreds of traffic constables at the intersections, ensuring everyone follows the rules, and infrastructure that dissuades those from breaking them, such as the rising bollards after buses we see cracking up cars in London, UK.
That great, but who going to pay them??
 
That great, but who going to pay them??
Red light cameras more than pay for themselves. It's well known and referenced by myself and others in this string.

Ditto for the Province enacting same for other traffic offences caught by photo. Unfortunately the City should have applied for this when Il Duce was Transport Min. Good luck with the Goosesteppers now at QP.
 

Back
Top