King Street (Streetcar Transit Priority)

[SunriseChampion]

I watched a guy today trying to make a left onto a QEW off ramp ... a big no left turn sign, and 3 lanes of cars facing him. Not sure which part he couldn’t understand ....

Part of the problem with King St is that because it’s a pilot, the signage isn’t always clear and typical Toronto, some intersections suffer from serious sign clutter. However, some people could have 5’ high neon lights, and they would still ignore them.

They've painted lines at intersections nudging drivers into the right lane. If that isn't clear enough for someone then they shouldn't be driving. As a driver of some skill (and a real love for driving.....off-road, racing, pushing vehicles to their limits) I have no sympathy or respect for people who just shouldn't be behind the wheel. I don't know why it's a right and not a privilege that requires some skill to attain.

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

I watched a guy today trying to make a left onto a QEW off ramp ... a big no left turn sign, and 3 lanes of cars facing him. Not sure which part he couldn’t understand ....

Maybe he was trying to make an illegal u-turn. I have seen that a few times at highway off-ramps.

 

[PinkLucy]

Nope. He had plenty of opportunity to do a u-turn. He just kept trying to creep closer to that off ramp.

 

[lead82]

I find it amazing how the city has messed up this key project. The data on this pilot is awful and basically can be easily construed to going back to the status quo, when eyes on the ground see that is had made a huge difference in travel times. The wait time and reliability is a lot better but there are barely any stats to support this. What stats the city has are poor and even the article itself says that data is not ideal as they have no idea when people travel or where. Heck, every time I use the 504/514, very few people tap Presto or pay onboard. Most just get on. They maybe metro-pass holders or free-riders or people with valid transfers. However, the TTC should have done more to collect better data to make their case more solid.

I support the pilot and making it permanent but I can easily see it being dismantled under threat by Doug Ford.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Presto adoption is still only at about 10% of TTC trips. The vast majority still use metropasses and tokens.

 

[DSC]

Presto adoption is still only at about 10% of TTC trips. The vast majority still use metropasses and tokens.

The TTC CEO report for August (CORRECTION: September) says "The PRESTO component of total TTC ridership continues to grow and the adoption rate is now at 28.2%." See page 20 of http://ttc.ca/PDF/About_the_TTC/CEO_Report/CEO_Report_September_2018_Update.pdf

 

[Admiral Beez]

Cycled the entire westbound length of the King project on Saturday. With the curbside barrier, I was pushed out rather too close to the streetcars, IMO. Why didn't they put a bike lane on King?

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Cycled the entire westbound length of the King project on Saturday. With the curbside barrier, I was pushed out rather too close to the streetcars, IMO. Why didn't they put a bike lane on King?

Because there's no space for one and the point of it is to make it fatter for public transit to get through the city.

 

[steveintoronto]

^ King Street is very dangerous for cycling. Most cyclists haven't a clue on that, however. It *is* too close to the tracks, and there's absolutely no margin for emergency movements between streetcars and the planters next to restaurant patio areas. In fact, some wide flat handlebars can't fit, that's how tight it is.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Because there's no space for one and the point of it is to make it fatter for public transit to get through the city.

Fat or not, why not skip the planters and make the curb lane a bike lane? You can still require bikes to stop to allow streetcar passengers to board and alight, same as we do throughout the city.

Or now that this thing is permanent, do what Portland does, minus the automobile.

https://ggwash.org/view/33820/north-south-streetcar-starts-to-take-shape

 

[steveintoronto]

Or now that this thing is permanent, do what Portland does, minus the automobile.

Because that street is not only wider than King, it's also one way, thus the single streetcar track.

 

[MetroMan]

Cycled the entire westbound length of the King project on Saturday. With the curbside barrier, I was pushed out rather too close to the streetcars, IMO. Why didn't they put a bike lane on King?

Fat or not, why not skip the planters and make the curb lane a bike lane? You can still require bikes to stop to allow streetcar passengers to board and alight, same as we do throughout the city.

https://ggwash.org/view/33820/north-south-streetcar-starts-to-take-shape

What is always missed when asking why there's no bike lane on King is that the biggest mode of transportation isn't the streetcar, it's pedestrians. Pedestrians outnumber streetcar riders by at least 3:1. The population on King West from Bathurst to University has grown from the low single digit thousands to the high tens of thousands and continues to grow. This without mentioning the surge in employment on King in this stretch. Sidewalks are far too narrow to support the existing pedestrian density, let alone what's coming when mega projects like BIG and Mirvish are completed.

The redevelopment of King Street must take pedestrians into account. This is why sidewalks have been widened in portions of the pilot — though not enough is being done due to special interests that continue to maintain bus parking in front of the theatres, the segment with the narrowest sidewalks.

This really makes it clear that the pedestrian has no voice in city politics. Somehow, the cyclists have this massive lobby but there is nobody speaking up for pedestrians, which is ironic since we are all pedestrians at some point.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Because that street is not only wider than King, it's also one way, thus the single streetcar track.

The Portland street seems to be four lanes wide, same as King. There’s certainly enough space for two tracks there if warranted.

 

[steveintoronto]

The Portland street seems to be four lanes wide, same as King.

The lanes don't denote a street width, measurement does. King Street is a narrow street even by Toronto standards.

There’s certainly enough space for two tracks there if warranted.

But there aren't two tracks there, are there? The bike lane is also one-way.

The suggestion has been made many times in this string and elsewhere for King and Queen to be made one way streets such that one is eastbound, the other west. Somehow, what with bike lanes on Adelaide and Richmond, and King desirous of being a *Transit Mall* that such ideas are deemed superfluous.

Pedestrians and cyclists don't mix, which is why the core of the Bourke Street Mall in Melbourne and many other *transit malls* ban cyclists in the core areas, where pedestrian and trams alone are a volatile mixture. Many malls fence off the tracks and gate crossings for pedestrians to cross in a controlled manner. In lieu of that, other transit malls, like Bourke Street, ban cyclists and still enforce a 5 kph speed limit for trams through the mall. There are still accidents and deaths nonetheless.

There isn't space for cycling lanes on King Street. Some of the earlier posts even have diagrams that analyze this. Pedestrians come first for any space surplus to streetcars.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Pedestrians and cyclists don't mix,

I understand that this is wishful thinking rather than fact, but all over Toronto we mix them. Look at Queens Quay, where we add markings and lights for cyclists, but then also invite pedestrians to use the same space. I ride up and down Sherbourne and at every bus stop bikes and pedestrians mix.

Could the city realistically ban cyclists from King St? It might be necessary, since it’s only a matter of time, or an icy patch, before a cyclists is pulled under the streetcar.