Bogtrotter
Senior Member
They are hardly 'exalted'. And yes I think the building should be preserved for something more appropriate for the property and not the first bidder waving the right amount of cash.
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John Street Roundhouse: Toronto Railway Heritage Centre, Steam Whistle, The Rec Room
AndreaPalladio
Senior Member
How does that help the building? Or the area? It's ridiculous to keep the building shuttered out of snobbery.
Bogtrotter
Senior Member
Snobbery has nothing to do with it. I see a lack of good planning and vision in handing it over one of TO's most important historic properties to the first guy waving cash.
Tranplanner
New Member
They're not the first guys to come along though...no one has been able to do anything with the roundhouse for a number of years now - the rail museum didn't happen (for various reasons), the TV studio thing didn't work out, and so the darn thing has been sitting empty, quietly rotting away. I don't know if Steam Whistle has a no-compete clause in their lease, otherwise I would expect restaurant-type uses would be falling over themselves to get at this location. At least the Leon's proposal will trigger some improvements (like the refurbishment of the turntable) to the roundhouse.
I'm not a retail expert, but I am scratching my head over this one. There is very limited parking, little walk-by traffic (who's going to stop in to buy furniture on the way to a ball game?), and no other significant retail anywhere near the roundhouse. Stores like Leon's typically like to congregate, to encourage comparison shopping.
AndreaPalladio
Senior Member
Well, no one else has waved cash at it for years - this might be the only chance to use the building. There obviously aren't that many people looking to lease an old garage.
ShonTron
Moderator
Member Bio
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Mel Lastman's legacy lives on in the latest furniture farce
John Barber The Globe and Mail Jun 12, 2007 A14
Let's skip the details and go straight to the top. City Hall's No. 1 reason why putting a Leon's Furniture store in the historic John Street Roundhouse, which was once supposed to be a major museum in what was once supposed to be a major park, is a good thing: It may be a discount-furniture outlet, but at least it's not a Bad Boy.
Such are the small mercies available to bedraggled bureaucrats in the age of the public-private partnership. They ride along, making excuses, reminding us helpfully that things could always be worse. This is the city, after all, that not so long ago draped the chain of office on a discount-furniture huckster.
Make no mistake: Mel Lastman's legacy liveth on in the latest Leon's. This week's news is the fruit of a tragi-farce that began its agonizing descent in the earliest days of the megacity, when such expressions as "request for proposals" were enough to send alternating chills of dread and greed surging through the corridors.
A decade of murky non-progress later, Leon's is the pedestrian but otherwise benign - and perfectly appropriate - result.
It may seem odd that the job of defending such a half-loaf would fall to Rita Davies, director of the city's culture department, but she does it with spirit.
The new Leon's will have tasteful signage and cater to the "upscale downtown condo market" now thriving amid the towers of the old railway lands, according to Ms. Davies.
"It's not going to be a cash-and-carry, it's a showcase store," she said. There will be no new parking lots. "Whatever one's concept of big box, this is not it."
The chain is undergoing a "rebranding" and soon will not be the same old Leon's, according to Ms. Davies. Not that there's anything wrong with that. "Not everybody can afford to shop at an UpCountry," she said, noting the "slightly snobby" response to the latest news about the railway museum in the Roundhouse.
The Leon's deal will ensure the Roundhouse is finally restored, its turntable made operable and three of its 30-odd repair bays are set aside for a museum - with the funding needed to operate it.
"We're going to get a beautifully restored building, we're going to get a rail heritage museum and maybe we're going to get a store that we'll all be happy to shop in," Ms. Davies said.
The snobs are not amused. One of them is newly elected Councillor Adam Vaughan, who enjoys the great benefit of not knowing how such a state of affairs in his downtown ward came to be, and thus remains uninfected by the defeatism such knowledge naturally encourages. Despite careful briefing on the deal, he is determined to blow it up.
But as Ms. Davies and others point out, that is likely impossible. Council voted last fall to approve a new lease on the Roundhouse, with a new developer, after the last big plan for something better went bust. In the process, it surrendered any say in the selection of sub-tenants. Retail is allowed. Leon's is retail.
At the same time, council extended the sweetheart deal enjoyed by co-tenant Steam Whistle Brewing, which won the right to occupy three more bays in the Roundhouse at $7.50 a square foot - and is now complaining loudly about Leon's.
But the brewery is just more of the same, its tenancy adopted as an expedient to cover for the failure of the original Lastman-era RFP.
Once Toronto dreamed of a great rail museum in a now-unique heritage structure. It got a brewery. It dared to dream again - and got a discount-furniture outlet.
"Except this won't be a discount-furniture store," said Ms. Davies, reminding us of the rebranding. "So it's a brewery and a furniture store - and a museum."
Good news at last: Things could be worse.
John Barber The Globe and Mail Jun 12, 2007 A14
Let's skip the details and go straight to the top. City Hall's No. 1 reason why putting a Leon's Furniture store in the historic John Street Roundhouse, which was once supposed to be a major museum in what was once supposed to be a major park, is a good thing: It may be a discount-furniture outlet, but at least it's not a Bad Boy.
Such are the small mercies available to bedraggled bureaucrats in the age of the public-private partnership. They ride along, making excuses, reminding us helpfully that things could always be worse. This is the city, after all, that not so long ago draped the chain of office on a discount-furniture huckster.
Make no mistake: Mel Lastman's legacy liveth on in the latest Leon's. This week's news is the fruit of a tragi-farce that began its agonizing descent in the earliest days of the megacity, when such expressions as "request for proposals" were enough to send alternating chills of dread and greed surging through the corridors.
A decade of murky non-progress later, Leon's is the pedestrian but otherwise benign - and perfectly appropriate - result.
It may seem odd that the job of defending such a half-loaf would fall to Rita Davies, director of the city's culture department, but she does it with spirit.
The new Leon's will have tasteful signage and cater to the "upscale downtown condo market" now thriving amid the towers of the old railway lands, according to Ms. Davies.
"It's not going to be a cash-and-carry, it's a showcase store," she said. There will be no new parking lots. "Whatever one's concept of big box, this is not it."
The chain is undergoing a "rebranding" and soon will not be the same old Leon's, according to Ms. Davies. Not that there's anything wrong with that. "Not everybody can afford to shop at an UpCountry," she said, noting the "slightly snobby" response to the latest news about the railway museum in the Roundhouse.
The Leon's deal will ensure the Roundhouse is finally restored, its turntable made operable and three of its 30-odd repair bays are set aside for a museum - with the funding needed to operate it.
"We're going to get a beautifully restored building, we're going to get a rail heritage museum and maybe we're going to get a store that we'll all be happy to shop in," Ms. Davies said.
The snobs are not amused. One of them is newly elected Councillor Adam Vaughan, who enjoys the great benefit of not knowing how such a state of affairs in his downtown ward came to be, and thus remains uninfected by the defeatism such knowledge naturally encourages. Despite careful briefing on the deal, he is determined to blow it up.
But as Ms. Davies and others point out, that is likely impossible. Council voted last fall to approve a new lease on the Roundhouse, with a new developer, after the last big plan for something better went bust. In the process, it surrendered any say in the selection of sub-tenants. Retail is allowed. Leon's is retail.
At the same time, council extended the sweetheart deal enjoyed by co-tenant Steam Whistle Brewing, which won the right to occupy three more bays in the Roundhouse at $7.50 a square foot - and is now complaining loudly about Leon's.
But the brewery is just more of the same, its tenancy adopted as an expedient to cover for the failure of the original Lastman-era RFP.
Once Toronto dreamed of a great rail museum in a now-unique heritage structure. It got a brewery. It dared to dream again - and got a discount-furniture outlet.
"Except this won't be a discount-furniture store," said Ms. Davies, reminding us of the rebranding. "So it's a brewery and a furniture store - and a museum."
Good news at last: Things could be worse.
Bogtrotter
Senior Member
Belittle it all you want, but the fact is it is a unique historic structure and one of the only remaining in North America. The building is already being partially used and maintained, so i don't believe it is actually rotting away. In other words it could sit empty for many more years and still not be too much worse for the wear. The question is whether it should be handed over to the first bidder who is willing and able to front the cash. I don't believe there will just but 'one chance' to use the building. It is not located on the fringe of the city, it is on very valuable land, and as this part of the city develops, which it rapidly is, I think the full potential of the site will be recognized. I say wait and see what other opportunites arise. A furniture warehouse for me is not really helping the property or the area, at least not nearly to the wonderful potential that it could and, I'm convinced, ultimately will if it is not handed over to a boxstore.
AndreaPalladio
Senior Member
What do you want to go in there, since furniture isn't elite enough for you? A restaurant, which, given the lack of foot traffic, will be out of business soon? A museum for which there is no collection and no demand? One would think that if this were such a desireable location, prosepective tenants would be banging on the doors. That hasn't happened. There's no reason not to sell furniture there.
Bogtrotter
Senior Member
Well, it's really about good planning and having a vision for the area, not to mention recognition of a unique property. As for my personal preference, I think Jayomatics idea for the place is quite resonable and certainly not beyond possiblity in the coming years. Given its location in a booming district, and it's position on land bridging the waterfront to the downtown, CN tower, dome, and acc etc.. the potential for foot traffic is enormous.
However, at least the Leon's proposal does include some sort of museum feature. But again, I think this area will be dramatically different in the coming years and the full potential for the building has yet to be realized, one can just hope they don't just give it over to highest bidder to do with as they please.
However, at least the Leon's proposal does include some sort of museum feature. But again, I think this area will be dramatically different in the coming years and the full potential for the building has yet to be realized, one can just hope they don't just give it over to highest bidder to do with as they please.
Jayomatic
Active Member
I think it could be cool to add some sort of central column and add some sort of retractable roof feature in glass or some other material which could be retracted in the summer for sunlight and views and in the winter it could become this covered patio allowing for use in the winter months for hockey, etc.
rdaner
Senior Member
Does anyone else have any viable options for this structure? Nooooooooobody!
Is the Steamwhistle Brewery running into problems? Too bad considering a nascent communtity is rapidly growing around it.
Is the Steamwhistle Brewery running into problems? Too bad considering a nascent communtity is rapidly growing around it.
Hipster Duck
Senior Member
Bogtrotter,
This city is littered with unique and historic properties that are never going to be anything other than vacant hulks because government interference and doctrinaire planning is preventing anything other than the most ideal use from going in there. This is kind of like a guy who holds out for a management position when he is clearly not suited for anything beyond temping. He remains unemployed for years while the rest of his peers swiftly ascend the corporate ladder. If this building was such a hot item, why did it sit virtually empty for 15 years?
This city is littered with unique and historic properties that are never going to be anything other than vacant hulks because government interference and doctrinaire planning is preventing anything other than the most ideal use from going in there. This is kind of like a guy who holds out for a management position when he is clearly not suited for anything beyond temping. He remains unemployed for years while the rest of his peers swiftly ascend the corporate ladder. If this building was such a hot item, why did it sit virtually empty for 15 years?
Bogtrotter
Senior Member
Well, if I'm not mistaken it sat on railways lands with nothing around it for its enbtire existence. That is rapidly changing and so is the importance of this area. I personally believe the roundhouse has terrific potential as this area continues to blossom...not sure what that has to do with management potential or temping though 
Hipster Duck
Senior Member
That was a metaphor about not holding out for too much. The roundhouse hasn't attracted anyone before not just because it was in the wrong location but because nobody except a big box retailer can commit to that kind/amount of space.
Maple Leaf Gardens is another example of this. Most people are offended that it might be turned into a SuperCentre when, in reality, its only other option to date has been to sit around vacant and be of no use to anyone.
Maple Leaf Gardens is another example of this. Most people are offended that it might be turned into a SuperCentre when, in reality, its only other option to date has been to sit around vacant and be of no use to anyone.
Bogtrotter
Senior Member
There's a also a saying about not settling for less. I don't believe that it can't be used for anything other than a box store retailer. That may very well be the easiest solution, but I still see no urgency in filling this space at the first bidder.