Homelessness and Panhandling in Toronto

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The streets are more dangerous today then they were 20 years ago.

That's intended as a factual statement. If it wasn't - it would have been something like "I feel that the streets are more dangerous today than they were 20 years ago". But of course, adding "I feel" immediately weakens the strength of the assertion since it draws into attention the lack of factual evidence. Incidentally, it's exactly the kind of argument some right wing politicans loves to pull.

AoD

 

[Admiral Beez]

That's intended as a factual statement.

Perhaps. Only the author can tell us what was intended, though I always believe that regardless of the intent, it is the receiver that gets to decide the meaning.

To me, his comment was akin to me saying it's colder today than yesterday, where I'm not intending to have the stats and facts of temperatures from one day to the next to support my comment, but instead am inferring that in my opinion it's colder than yesterday.

You don't have to be right wing to believe crime rates have gone up or down. Where the debate occurs is in the reasons behind changing crime rates. The left may argue that declining social safety nets, education and daycare cuts and economic downturns lead people to crime, and that society is not taking care of everybody with a communal hug. Whereas the right may argue that crime goes up due to lack of punishment, lack personal responsbility, poor immigration/refugee controls, the destruction of the traditional family, the rise of godless pagans, and all that rubbish that makes a redneck a redneck.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Perhaps. Only the author can tell us what was intended, though I always believe that regardless of the intent, it is the receiver that gets to decide the meaning.

To me, his comment was akin to me saying it's colder today than yesterday, where I'm not intending to have the stats and facts of temperatures from one day to the next to support my comment, but instead am inferring that in my opinion it's colder than yesterday.

Which makes the comments regarding the factual incorrectness of his statement all the more important - given that it is constructed inaccurately and so open to interpretation as to whether it is a statemnt of fact vs. a personal opinion. You should welcome the clarification offered subsequently instead!

You don't have to be right wing to believe crime rates have gone up or down. Where the debate occurs is in the reasons behind changing crime rates. The left may argue that declining social safety nets, education and daycare cuts and economic downturns lead people to crime, and that society is not taking care of everybody with a communal hug. Whereas the right may argue that crime goes up due to lack of punishment, lack personal responsbility, poor immigration/refugee controls, the destruction of the traditional family, the rise of godless pagans, and all that rubbish that makes a redneck a redneck.

That's a different issue entirely - if one can't delineate the trend (up or down) factually, how can one even argue what the reasons are behind whatever changes, if any, there are. But of course, if one asserts crime is going up without evidence (or even contrary to evidence), then such a phantom phenomenon would require some sort of explanation and rationalization, thus the link to lack of punishment, etc - when in effect such link cannot be drawn in the first place. It's like arguing that we have more crime because of lax enforcement of laws, when there is less crime to start off with.

AoD

 

[lordmandeep]

I remember hearing an UFT Professor saying that Crime appears to be going up due to it being more public. More conflict between random people in public, rather then conflicts behind closed doors or between family and friends in the past.

 

[Hydrogen]

I would think that the word "appears" would fall into the description that Alvin has provided. There must be evidence to substantiate such claims, otherwise such an assertion is no better than an opinion on the matter.

Crime rates are what has happened born by measurement, not what is thought to have happened, or imagined to have happened.

 

[Pep'rJack]

It doesn't matter what the crime stats say. These are his opinions and feelings on the matter, IMO he's not claiming to know the exact stats, only that to him crime is up.

That's easily one of the strangest - and frankly dumbest - things ever posted here, though it fits in beautifully with today's Rovian 'we-create-our-own-reality' madness. If one's "feelings" or beliefs are in contradiction to demonstrable facts (yes, they *DO* still actually exist here in the reality-based community), that is not called a subjective 'opinion' - it is called being 'wrong', period.


"The sky is blue."

"No, I feel that it is red."


Really, WTF are you talking about?

 

[Ummagumma66]

it comes down to media, as the old attage says "if it bleeds it leads". of course it seems that crime is up because all media outlets will lead with the most gruesome stories, thus creating the illusion that crime is up, while stats state otherwise.

 

[Admiral Beez]

That's easily one of the strangest - and frankly dumbest - things ever posted here, though it fits in beautifully with today's Rovian 'we-create-our-own-reality' madness. If one's "feelings" or beliefs are in contradiction to demonstrable facts (yes, they *DO* still actually exist here in the reality-based community), that is not called a subjective 'opinion' - it is called being 'wrong', period.

Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

Really, WTF are you talking about?

In all of my hundreds of posts here at UT I don't think I have ever referred to another member's posts as dumb or asked WTF about anything. I may not like your post, as you may not like mine, but I'll never insult you for making the effort to contribute to the forum.

 

[RJR123]

The reason some people incorrectly perceive crime to be increasing is because of the non-stop media coverage of crime. Remember, if it bleeds, it leads. There are so many more outlets now for people to be exposed to crime stories (more tv stations, more news shows, the internet) along with the dumbing-down moves towards the sensational vs. the factual in news coverage that it's no wonder people have this perception.
Stories about falling crime rates are covered by little two paragraph stories in section C, page 18, whereas the latest shoot-up between idiots in the Entertainment District gets front-page treatment.

 

[lordmandeep]

actually rarely are falling crime stories ever covered. If they are, mostly they are seen as lies, and the proof is some regular joe walking down the street.

Really, IMO few Journalists are smart knowledgeable people, most are actors really.

 

[Hydrogen]

J-school does not promote critical thinking and does not require courses in statistics.

 

[Raul Duke]

Hawk. greetings. send me a mail. slick

 

[lordmandeep]

yeah spending the last few months downtown...

Panhandlers are 95% scamers...


Say one pull out a cellphone while no one is watching...


I would allow sleeping on the street but panhandling should be banned. There are some people who are such in terrible situation. However our laxed rules on this issue is making our city popular with all sorts of modern day nomads that go around causing trouble such as murdering an innocent man....

 

[origin]

There's also people on the street by choice. They do not believe the homeless shelters are safe. Walk past metro hall and there's always someone sleeping on the grates. There are tons of empty spaces in the shelters but they choose not to stay in them. It appears that Toronto does not have a clean up the streets policy here since people can sleep on those grates during the day and show all the visitors of Toronto what our policy is towards getting our streets clean of them.

 

[Roy G Biv]

Roy G Biv's brief conversation with a panhandler last night:

Guy: "Can you spare some change, I'm a 75 cents short.."

RGB: rifling through his pocket, "Short for what?"

Guy: "I'm not gonna lie. A bottle of wine"

lol

If I can make one request, it's that people stop ignoring panhandlers when they ask for change. They are human beings, and deserve a "Sorry" or even a "No". When I moved to Toronto, I could not believe that 90% of people just pretend the panhandlers don't exist. It's very weird.