News   Nov 18, 2024
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Homelessness and Panhandling in Toronto

Roy G Biv's brief conversation with a panhandler last night:

Guy: "Can you spare some change, I'm a 75 cents short.."

RGB: rifling through his pocket, "Short for what?"

Guy: "I'm not gonna lie. A bottle of wine"

lol

If I can make one request, it's that people stop ignoring panhandlers when they ask for change. They are human beings, and deserve a "Sorry" or even a "No". When I moved to Toronto, I could not believe that 90% of people just pretend the panhandlers don't exist. It's very weird.

I will usually say "No." I don't know who really needs it and who doesn't, but in this city there are people/organizations who do, so I give them some money, on top of the money they get indirectly from me through government and corporate donations.

One thing I note is that panhandlers on the street I see are 90+% white and 99+% men. I know that there are many needy people in the city who are not white or male and it makes me wonder if white men are not having their needs met, or if these guys are just scammers.

But there are two panhandler types I ignore, the repeat offenders who have been $2 short of the bus fare to Kitchener to see their mother who is dying of cancer every day for the past five years, and any subway panhandlers on the train.
 
But there are two panhandler types I ignore, the repeat offenders who have been $2 short of the bus fare to Kitchener to see their mother who is dying of cancer every day for the past five years, and any subway panhandlers on the train.

I really hate this one panhandler scam that a few girls have tried on me. So the girl fakes looking scared and says "please can you spare $2. My boyfriend got violent and threw me down some stairs"

This has been tried on me twice now. I love the concept that the abusive act caused her money to evaporate into thin air. I wonder if that crappy story works on anyone.
 
I really hate this one panhandler scam that a few girls have tried on me. So the girl fakes looking scared and says "please can you spare $2. My boyfriend got violent and threw me down some stairs"

This has been tried on me twice now. I love the concept that the abusive act caused her money to evaporate into thin air. I wonder if that crappy story works on anyone.


ièm sure it does considering the high-profile spousal-partner abuse cases out there like Rihannas.
 
I have only once have given anything to a panhandler. It was in the 1960's and I was working on College Street around Queens Park. The beggar asked If I would accept his cheque for a cigarette, I rewarded his resourcefull schtick with a couple of smokes, besides he looked exactly like Barry Fitzgerald of the movies.
 
If I can make one request, it's that people stop ignoring panhandlers when they ask for change. They are human beings, and deserve a "Sorry" or even a "No".

Not only do I ignore them, but if they catch me on a bad day, they'll regret ever having bugged me. I do this because my job is extremely stressful as well, everyone's job is at times. I work hard for not so good of money in a VERY expensive city. Panhandlers sit in the street and the most they do for their money is say "spare change". Also some can become quite aggressive. Buskers or someone doing something, sure, I'll give them any spare change I may have. Someone simply sitting there as a burden to society, too bad!

And the reason I'm rude to them after all is because they bugged me. I am walking, minding my own business and THEY bugged ME. Therefore, suffer the consequences.
 
TOreality:

If they are truly homeless (and not the con artists type), I have a feeling they've gone through more than what your "consequences" can offer.

AoD
 
You are very right, however most out there have potential to make something of themselves. Its obviously quite easy to figure the "con artists" from the actual homeless. First of all, the ones who actually approach you will usually be the ones giving you a story. The ones who sit there quietly with a cup in front of them are the real deal.

And furthermore, everyone has gone through something in their life. For all they know, they are asking someone who cannot even afford to eat themselves. You think someone who is in a negative, depressing state of mind feels like listen to someone elses crap story to score a few dollars?
 
From what I understand...

From a friend who works in social services is that a lot of serives and support is there for women and children but very little in the way for men. I think it's just assumed that men can take care of themselves and if not? Those individuals fall through the cracks.

And this remark "And the reason I'm rude to them after all is because they bugged me. I am walking, minding my own business and THEY bugged ME. Therefore, suffer the consequences." is just plain mean spirited.

Yeah, if they become aggressive or harass you then by all means let them know to back off, but don't be a asshole because someone living on the street asked for some spare change and interupted your daydreaming on the way home.
 
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I always look at them and say "sorry man," and they usually say "have a nice day."

But one time I gave a guy $5 after stopping (my first mistake) and listening to a sob story about needing to get back to Nova Scotia. It was probably all b/s but he spun quite the yarn.
 
Not only do I ignore them, but if they catch me on a bad day, they'll regret ever having bugged me. <snip>

You are very right, however most out there have potential to make something of themselves. Its obviously quite easy to figure the "con artists" from the actual homeless. First of all, the ones who actually approach you will usually be the ones giving you a story. The ones who sit there quietly with a cup in front of them are the real deal.

How do you know all of this if you ignore them?

A "sorry" or a nod of the head meaning "no" is the least (very least) we can do to show a little respect for our less fortunate or those who are desperate enough to resort to "scamming". These are real human beings with blood pumping through their veins who for one reason or another (often mental illness, drug or alcohol addiction) have fallen on bad times.

It makes me sad to read comments from some people who treat other people like waste material. I don't get it.
 
You are very right, however most out there have potential to make something of themselves.

everyone has the potential to make somthing out of themselves, but think about ths....

how do you get a job without an address? or with out a SIN number? how do you get a SIN number without an address? How do you get an address without an exsting address? We sometimes forget how screwed you truly are once you've fallen through the cracks?
 
R-e-s-p-e-c-t

It always amazes me how little respect there is for others in Toronto. I suspect people like TOreality think it makes the city seem tough and gritty to behave like this - big time world class city and all that. Just as the BMO crowd thinks that it makes a real football city to behave like louts.

It is ironic that in cities that have a reputation of being hard-assed, and really are - New York, Chicago, Istanbul, Bangkok, parts of London, to name a few - people tend to show a lot of respect. Part of the reason probably is that you never know who you are dealing with and if rubbed the wrong way there are people there who could do serious damage.

I don't know how many saw the story of the NY panhandler, OK street hustler/vendor, carrying a MAC-10 machine pistol who was killed in a Times Square shoot-out a few days ago. That was a serious person.

I don't give money to panhandlers in Toronto, I don't like them on the streets but at the same time I don't know what brought them there. I am clearly much better off than they are. A simple "No" or "Not today" is all it takes.






.
 
It always amazes me how little respect there is for others in Toronto. I suspect people like TOreality think it makes the city seem tough and gritty to behave like this - big time world class city and all that. Just as the BMO crowd thinks that it makes a real football city to behave like louts.

It is ironic that in cities that have a reputation of being hard-assed, and really are - New York, Chicago, Istanbul, Bangkok, parts of London, to name a few - people tend to show a lot of respect. Part of the reason probably is that you never know who you are dealing with and if rubbed the wrong way there are people there who could do serious damage.

I don't know how many saw the story of the NY panhandler, OK street hustler/vendor, carrying a MAC-10 machine pistol who was killed in a Times Square shoot-out a few days ago. That was a serious person.

I don't give money to panhandlers in Toronto, I don't like them on the streets but at the same time I don't know what brought them there. I am clearly much better off than they are. A simple "No" or "Not today" is all it takes.






.

This is wrong, don't let this forum or a few articles get to you ... by far the majority of the population I've seen shows just that, respect, many including my self say "no, sorry..." or something along those lines. Now how they feel about it might be completely different ... clearly indicated by this form. Your telling me in NYC and other cities there aren't other that don't feel the same way? of course not ... the majority likely do.

So there are 2 different things involved here:
1) How you treat them.
2) How you feel about them /what should be done with them to help or what not.
 
While I think every member of our society, should be treated with respect; and those in difficulty offered at least sympathy, but preferably constructive help....

I do understand how people become hardened to the tougher realities out there.

I think the sheer size/ubiquitousness of certain problems, homelessness included, brings on a sense of helplessness in many. What difference will my lone effort make?

One can also see where the risk of guilt becomes an issue....(if you help one, should you help them all?) the moral answer is yes, the optimistic answer is you shouldn't have to because others should be doing their part too; but the practical part says, I walked past 15 pan handlers and if I gave them a toonie each that would be $30 per day, every day.....

*********

I think where people rhapsodize either about small towns or the odd larger city with greater social infrastructure.....is that if the problem is relatively small.....if you only see 1 panhandler once in a week or month......its much easier to be help. Not only because its affordable or you have the time, but because you believe you can make a difference this once. You're not jaded.

That's harder in a big city with a big problem.

**********

Personally, while I endeavour to be respectful, I rarely if ever give. I do actively support by voting/lobbying etc. government doing more to address the needs of society's most vulnerable. I sometimes wish I would take the time to see if I could truly help even 1 person dig themselves out of their situation, but I become resigned to the notion that I'm not an expert, and lack the time and resources to do that properly, whether or not I'm just letting myself off the hook....I don't know

********

What I do think all of us can and should do, (sorry if this sounds preachy)...
is lobby government to address where it can, the most prominent causes of homelessness and serious poverty in general. We also ought to be prepared to pay more taxes in the short-term to achieve this (I would contend in the long term we will make money back off getting people off the streets and into jobs).

Best I can figure, the leading causes of severe poverty are:

Mental/Illness and addiction:

- For this we need to ensure that any one in need of care receives it, in a timely fashion, for free.

- This includes addiction treatment for which there ought to be no waiting lists.

- We also need to have more 'supervised' care to ensure people are just released as soon as they are cured/sober and then dumped back on the streets where to no one's surprise they stop taking meds with no money to afford them, and no one to remind them....or start imbibing or getting high again to make the pain go away.

There needs to be intermediate care, post-institutional where people are properly housed, given the tools to succeed and receive on-going supervision and emotional support for months after their release from treatment.

**

Joblessness:

We also need a system to help the chronically unemployed get jobs. I think we do an OK job of helping people who can basically help themselves. But if you lack basic ID or a phone or email; if you lack a good outfit for a job interview or a place to shower; if you have never been employed or don't know how to fill out a resume, the help we offer is far less effective.

**

Jobs that don't meet basic needs:

We also need to provide an employment market with jobs that pay enough that people can actually save for a rainy day so to speak.

In fairness to the current government, minimum wage is on the rise.

But if any of us had to live on $9.50 an hour...even if we got 40 paid hours....we'd be in very tough.

Its not just a function of wage rate, but of the fact in my circle most people are salaried or get a full 40 hours paid (paid lunches); or get paid so much that it doesn't matter.

But when at the bottom in retail, you are quite likely to get only an unpaid 30min. break (if your shift is long enough) meaning there are only 35-37.5 paid hours to be had, assuming you can get full time work.

At such low wage levels losing that amount is tortuous. Of course an absence of ANY paid sick days, when you clearly don't make enough to pay daily expenses as it is.....means that if you get genuinely sick you may lose your ability to pay rent or to eat; starting a terrible downward spiral.

In any event, I would argue for at least 5 paid sick days by law, with the money being generated the same way your holidays are (as a % of your cheque). I would argue for a fairer minimum wage and tax regime. At the very minimum $12.00 per hour; and for a paid meal break law that essentially guarantees full time or near-full time workers, 40 paid hours.

There are a host of other important measures as well, such as Pharmacare, so no one ever goes off their meds for lack of money.....

But all that belongs to another thread, another day.
 

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