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Greyhound: Apart from that, how was your experience today?

The police put this guy on the bus? If so, he must have done something wrong or been considered undesirable. I wonder why he wasn't patted down first? There's more of this story to come.

Meanwhile watch your back on Greyhound buses.
 
Family of man killed on Greyhound bus pressing for 'Tim's law

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/02/26/mb-mclean-law.html

With dangerous "crazies" pushing kids onto subway tracks, beheading a rider on a Greyhound Bus and stabbing a woman while she waits for a bus, what do you think of Tim's Law?

While the proposed law is not specifically a transit issue, we are at our most vulnerable to attack by mentally ill folk while in public spaces, as opposed to inside our own cars, homes, etc.

Myself, I don't care about determining criminal responsibility. If I become temporarily insane and kill someone, then I should be placed in either jail or a mental institution for the rest of my life, not until my meds make me better.
 
Unfortunately, the rights of criminals have always been put ahead of the rights of the people/victims in this country. Good for the family to try and change it, but I don't see anything really constructive happening.

At least they are not calling for some completely ineffective measure such as banning knives.
 
I just don't understand why the onus has to be on proving criminal responsibility. I can understand about intent being a deciding factor in sentences. For example, if I'm driving recklessly and kill someone, that should likely be manslaughter, not murder. Whereas if I took out a gun and shot someone, that would likely be murder.

However, why do we care if someone is criminally responsible? All I want is evidence of intent to commit the crime. I don't care if radio signals from the mother ship told you to push those kids in front of the subway...all I care is that you intended to do it, and did it.

If we have to be weak kneed about it, perhaps we should consider mentally ill criminals that go off their meds and kill along the same lines as drunk drivers that kill. A drunk driver is not legally allowed to defend himself by declaring non-criminal responsbility due to being impaired. If an otherwise sound person goes off their meds, knowing the impact, and then reverts to being mentally ill and kills someone, then the same disallowance of the non-criminally responsible defence should apply.
 
I don't get this law. In all these cases, the assailant was clearly mentally ill, and even the most severe penalties wouldn't have made any difference in how they executed their crime.

So that means this law change won't protect anyone, and is simply about vengeance.

Surely, we should be focussing on not letting people who are that mentally disturbed be wandering the streets in the first place; rather than trying to extract vengeance on them?

It would be more effective I would think to jail the medical practicioner who might have let them on the streets in the first place! (not that I support doing that; just that it might be more effective).
 
How is it simply about vengence? Consider as soon as this guy takes his med and the doctor oks it, he'll prolly be out in a couple years and all it'll take is one relapse and repeat cycle. Some of these guys who commit murder need to be treated like criminals whether there mentally ill or not as soon as they are released back into the community they'll once again pose a threat.
 
I completely agree with Tim's Law and I hope they put it through. I don't care how crazy(/mentally ill/whatever term you want to use) you are - if you are likely to hurt someone (or HAVE hurt someone) you do not deserve the right to walk freely as a normal person.
 
I've never understood the persistence of the not guilty by reason of mental defect/insanity for acts committed by people who are mentally ill. The phrasing suggests that somehow the person was not there at the time. When an act is committed by such an individual, they are broadly "responsible" in that they committed the act. However, the fact that they are suffering some sort of defect suggests a different outcome for such a determination.

The language of the plea does not really help things.
 
personally, i don't think talking to god is an insane thing unless of course you get a response from god, then you're nuts......


By Chinta Puxley, The Canadian Press


WINNIPEG - A psychiatrist says a man who stabbed and beheaded a fellow passenger on a Greyhound bus believed the voice of God was telling him to do it.

The voice told Vince Li to get on the bus and sit next to Tim McLean, Dr. Stanley Yaren told Li's second-degree murder trial Tuesday.

"A voice from God told him Mr. McLean was a force of evil and was about to execute him," Yaren, a witness for the Crown, told the judge hearing the case.

Li, 40, believed he had to act quickly to protect himself, Yaren said.

"In response to that, in a state of panic and fearful for his life, he carried out the acts that he did."

But that wasn't enough.

Li , whom Yaren diagnosed as schizophrenic, believed the 22-year-old McLean was still capable of coming back to life, so he continued to mutilate the body and scattered the parts around the bus, the psychiatrist testified.

Although he admitted his guilt to officers that night last July, Li pleaded not guilty on Tuesday. His lawyers are arguing he was not criminally responsible because he was mentally ill.

Yaren concurred.

"Mr. Li did not understand he was killing an innocent bystander. He did not understand his actions were wrong."

An agreed statement of facts read out in the Winnipeg courtroom said Li, blood still smeared on his face from the attack, politely apologized to police when he was arrested and pleaded with officers to take his life.

"I'm sorry. I'm guilty. Please kill me."

The statement said Li attacked McLean "for no apparent reason" and ignored other horrified passengers as he repeatedly stabbed the young man, who unsuccessfully fought for his life.

"Tim McLean struggled and tried to escape," Crown prosecutor Joyce Dalmyn said.

But McLean couldn't get away because Li was blocking the aisle.

When the bus pulled over near Portage la Prairie, Man., Li was engrossed with stabbing and mutilating McLean's body. Passengers fled the bus and stood outside.

It was then that Li tried numerous times to leave the bus. But he was locked inside and, according to the statement, returned to McLean's body and methodically carved it up further. Police arriving on scene asked him to drop the knife and he said he "had to stay on this bus forever."

But he eventually tried to escape out a window and was taken into custody.

Police said McLean's body parts were found throughout the bus in plastic bags, although part of his heart and both eyes were never found and were presumed eaten by Li. He has denied that, but "there is no other possible location for those items," said Dalmyn.

The victim's ear, nose and tongue were found in Li's pocket.

McLean, a carnival worker, had been returning home to Manitoba after working at a fair in Alberta. Passengers have said he was sleeping near the back of the bus and listening to music on his earphones when he was attacked.

No one who witnessed the horror was expected to testify.

McLean's family and friends, many wearing T-shirts with his picture on them, wept as the grisly details were read out in court.

His mother, Carol deDelley, has said she wants the law changed so anyone found not criminally responsible for a crime still serves time behind bars. But legal experts say the defence is rarely used and doesn't mean the criminal walks away scot-free.

The agreed facts also presented some of Li's background. He was born in China in 1968 and came to Canada in 2001. He became a citizen in 2005. He graduated from a business college, but never got a job in his field.

He didn't have many friends and was divorced in 2006. Li had "mental problems," according to those who knew him, but they had not known him to be violent

Yaren said Li was briefly hospitalized in 2003 or 2004 after he was picked up by Ontario Provincial Police, who found him walking along a highway "following the sun" as ordered to by God.

His former wife said he used to be gone for long periods of time, took unexplained bus trips and sometimes rambled. He was hospitalized briefly but never sought medical attention.

The statement outlines how Li got off the bus in Erickson, Man., where he spent the night on a park bench before boarding another bus July 30. It was as that bus neared Portage la Prairie that he moved to the back where McLean was sitting.

Before he left on his trip, court heard how he left his wife a note.

"I'm gone. Don't look for me. I wish you were happy."

source
 
Consider as soon as this guy takes his med and the doctor oks it, he'll prolly be out in a couple years and all it'll take is one relapse and repeat cycle.
Couple of years??? That's not how it currently works. This guy won't be seeing the light for a long time.

Unless someone has documented examples of similiar situations where the assailant is getting out quickly, then this law is a waste of everyone's time.
 
Tim's Law-Similar to Kendra's Law in New York State...

Everyone: This information on Tim's Law reminds me of a similar law on the books in NYS: Kendra's Law.

It was enacted on the result of the death of a young woman back in January 1999 in NYC-Kendra Webdale-who was pushed to her death in a NYC Subway station by an unsupervised mental patient - Andrew Goldstein - who was later charged with second degree murder as a result.

Kendra Webdale(1966-1999)was a 32-year old woman from Fredonia,NY-on the shore of Lake Erie about 40 miles W of Buffalo. I remember this because it was a big NYC news story and because what happened was just absolutely SENSELESS.

Links to information about Kendra's Law can be found here:
www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kendra's_Law And the NYS Assembly Press release
on Kendra's Law:
www.assembly.state.ny.us/press/19990805.html

-Insight by Long Island Mike-
 
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This is all kind of cyclical, isn't it? Government cuts funding to mental health facilities, thereby pushing people with mental health problems onto the streets, something tragic happens, everyone pushes for more effective mental health facilities. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

The emphasis should not only be on those with mental health problems who have already committed violent acts, but on helping and treating those with obvious mental health problems who have the POTENTIAL to commit violent acts.
 
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