nfitz
Superstar
I hope so! I'm planning to go to a couple of the soccer games from work! But my suspicion is that they've just left off some stops.
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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)
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DonValleyRainbow
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So apparently a train from Burlington to West Harbour will take 21 minutes.
Currently, you take the train to Burlington, and connect to a bus to get to Niagara. The schedule allows 10 minutes transfer time. From departure time, the bus trip time to Stoney Creek is 17 minutes. Obviously, this is all traffic dependent; the evening rush-hour trips give 5-10 minutes extra on the schedule.
A theoretical Niagara bus from West Harbour, down Barton Street to Stoney Creek would take 16 minutes (without traffic) according to Google. Add a minute or two if you want additional local street stops. That is also if the GO bus doesn't do its stupid loop-dee-loo around Kenora, Bancroft and Nash, and just stops on the west side of the Red Hill Parkway.
That would make a West Harbour-Niagara bus trip a total of 37 minutes (not including the same assumed 10 minutes transfer dwell time), or an extra 20 minutes. That is twice as long to get to Stoney Creek even without looping. The benefits, however, are downtown Hamilton access to/from Niagara, as well as bypassing delays on the Skyway.
Just some analysis. I wouldn't advocate for one way or the other, maybe both though; re-direct some trips to the train at West Harbour to cater to any downtown Hamilton-Niagara trips.
Would like to see how much time savings could be made with Confederation Station though. Getting a train from West Harbour to there should not take 18 minutes.
Currently, you take the train to Burlington, and connect to a bus to get to Niagara. The schedule allows 10 minutes transfer time. From departure time, the bus trip time to Stoney Creek is 17 minutes. Obviously, this is all traffic dependent; the evening rush-hour trips give 5-10 minutes extra on the schedule.
A theoretical Niagara bus from West Harbour, down Barton Street to Stoney Creek would take 16 minutes (without traffic) according to Google. Add a minute or two if you want additional local street stops. That is also if the GO bus doesn't do its stupid loop-dee-loo around Kenora, Bancroft and Nash, and just stops on the west side of the Red Hill Parkway.
That would make a West Harbour-Niagara bus trip a total of 37 minutes (not including the same assumed 10 minutes transfer dwell time), or an extra 20 minutes. That is twice as long to get to Stoney Creek even without looping. The benefits, however, are downtown Hamilton access to/from Niagara, as well as bypassing delays on the Skyway.
Just some analysis. I wouldn't advocate for one way or the other, maybe both though; re-direct some trips to the train at West Harbour to cater to any downtown Hamilton-Niagara trips.
Would like to see how much time savings could be made with Confederation Station though. Getting a train from West Harbour to there should not take 18 minutes.
mdrejhon
Senior Member
Yeah, it seems so. I guess they will fix this problem as part of the $150M Confederation GO station extension, which builds parallel trackage all the way from West Harbour to Stoney Creek. This should probably make it possible for Niagara GO service to easily stop at West Harbour.
Or put a crossover sometime before next year, so that trains coming from the other direction, can switch to the track serving West Harbour.
mdrejhon
Senior Member
I think West Harbour to Stoney Creek, a straight arrow of 9 kilometers, with parallel Metrolinx-funded track south of the original CN trackage (funded as part of the $150M budget, as I understand it), will be able to make it between West Harbour and Stoney Creek in approximately 10 minutes. Perhaps a minute less. Assuming gradual acceleration to 120kph in maybe ~3-4km (If I recall correctly, according to vegata_skyline -- he can confirm), steady coast at 120kph for 3-5km, and then slowing down in the final kilometer or two (the trains can brake from 100kph to 0 in only about half a kilometer!). They probably will keep it conservative and make that run in about 10-11 mins, given there are at-grade crossings along this corridor, but based on how GO trains perform in Lakeshore West straight arrows, they could easily do a sub-10-minute run to Stoney Creek from West Harbour if they wanted to, and there's enough acceleration room to reach 130-140kph.
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Jonny5
Senior Member
Right. You want to guarantee people arrive at the venue for the start of the match. That trip is crammed into an already crowded track space from Union to Port Credit so there is a ot that could go wrong.
mdrejhon
Senior Member
I think they had to add an evening PanAm express train because the other existing trains are already full of peak-period travellers, and the corridor capacity is constrained.
So to solve that problem, add just only one attractive express train that attracts PanAm travellers away from the overcrowded Lakeshore West peak trains. I expect this train is probably going to be really busy, since soccer(football) is very popular and people are going to avoid the freeways where possible during PanAm. All the vaunted and revered football greats of this hemisphere are playing, including Argentina/Brazil/Colombia/etc, so this will probably be the most popular sport at PanAm, and the one that actually attracts a number of foreign tourists. (Hmmm... That means, don't be late for this train or you will miss your game!)
I must say the Hamilton train schedule looks somewhat complex. Two stations and several variances throughout the PanAm event.
Due to the complexity of the PanAm Hamilton GO train schedule, and also the overlap with peak period Lakeshore trains that will also stop at West Harbour (that will also double as alternate event trains), they need to market the trains carefully to avoid producing a bad impression to foreign tourists of the world's most popular sport. The exact PanAm train schedule hasn't even been officially announced or advertised, but we've sleuthed the exact timetable off the GO Transit site.
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nfitz
Superstar
Ah, that's a good point. Still doesn't explain why it takes 70 minutes to go what usually takes 72 minutes when there's 7 extra stops. Should be closer to 60 minutes ... or 55 minutes if they can do what they did when they used to use steam engines on this run in 1950.
It's been on the http://www.triplinx.ca/ website for 3 weeks. And they've been announcing there will be train service for years.
mdrejhon
Senior Member
Agreed. Probably a conservative time as this train is a "must not fail" for PanAm attendees. I would expect the train to arrive "early" some of the time. Also, there is no incentive to "stick to the schedule" due to lack of interim stations, so there is full open incentive for the train to arrive early. Let's hope this is the case.
I'm not talking about THAT kind of announcement. We know, we know.
I'm talking about "Here's our PanAm train schedule!" articles and advertisements in media, radio, television, on tickets, flyers, etc. Surprisingly, none of that has happened yet.
wopchop
Building Toronto
nfitz
Superstar
They are probably still too busy with their "Stay away from the games, the traffic will be hell" campaign.
mdrejhon
Senior Member
Nope, they did not. You don't see clarity of train times.
We need targeted advertising like:
"Here's our chart of train times specific to PanAm for the football(soccer) event!"
"5:50pm express train to PanAm soccer every weekday!"
etc.
And even market-targeted pitches like:
"We have X trains in the Y hours before every single football(soccer) game"
"Stay in Hamilton after the Game. Our last train leaves Hamilton at midnight!"
etc.
Then again, they may be planning a blitz. Probably. I'm pretty curious. If they screw this up, tourists won't know these trains exist.
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mdrejhon
Senior Member
To be fair, the media is amplifying it for free -- all the media is scaring everyone to stay away from driving a car during PanAm.
nfitz
Superstar
I'm predicting the roads will be no worse than September/October when traffic tends to peak - I wouldn't be surprised if they are actually better, with all the paranoia.
11th
Senior Member
Except that paranoia will have to last two months. Once people see the traffic's not as bad, they will move back onto their cars. The scaring tactic only works if it's for a short period of time, not two months.
nfitz
Superstar
Games only last 2 weeks - 10 business days. There's the Parapan games for 5 days later on, in August - but the attendance numbers for that will be much lower.
With the paranoia to the point, that some folks have already booked vacations out of town for the 2-week Pan Am game period, then it's not like many will be changing their mind. Yes, some car drivers will ... we'll have to see how it goes. I can't imagine it will be as bad as the Gardiner construction last fall.