GO Transit: Construction Projects (Metrolinx, various)

[nfitz]

If the Scarborough Junction grade separation for the second Stouffville line track is not built will the Stouffville line use the two north tracks and the Lakeshore East line use the two south tracks in the corridor? If both lines are running 2-way 15-minute service will this configuration allow for a LSE express train? Will there still be capacity available for VIA?

Three tracks still allow for express trains + VIA. I don't know why the 4-track configuration would be a concern.

Or what the big deal about the lack of a rail flyover is. If they can do it without ... why not. There's been zero indication that service would be impacted, outside of the fan groups.

 

[PShells]

Three tracks still allow for express trains + VIA. I don't know why the 4-track configuration would be a concern.

Or what the big deal about the lack of a rail flyover is. If they can do it without ... why not. There's been zero indication that service would be impacted, outside of the fan groups.

I didn't know if the 15-minute service on the Stouffville line "consumed" too much of the 3rd and 4th tracks for the LSE to run an express on top of 15-minute service plus VIA.

 

[kaptrice]

Three tracks still allow for express trains + VIA. I don't know why the 4-track configuration would be a concern.

Or what the big deal about the lack of a rail flyover is. If they can do it without ... why not. There's been zero indication that service would be impacted, outside of the fan groups.

The disappointment always seemed like it was over the death of the nice true 6-track arrangement with the good cross-platform transfers at East Harbour. Is it a game of telephone that's morphed it into a service-prohibitive thing?

 

[crs1026]

I racked my brain and hunted my files in search of the questionable bridge de-scoping document that I remembered, without success - but I did recall a little more clearly how I noticed it. I believe it may be in some report sent to someone (Toronto City Council? A subcommittee? Community Council?) dealing with an adjacent property (possibly expropriation or land severance) and a drawing was attached which showed only a 2-track structure where the previous plans had been 3 or more. I'm not going to look further, either it is gone or I have more vivid nightmares than I realise . But from my best recollections I do believe it related to the LSE plans east of Guildwood.

In any event - earlier documentation re the LSE track expansion clearly specified that the LSE grade separations would be built to hold 3 tracks with protection for a fourth track. The entire project has been deferred and descoped, and much of the original documentation has been scrubbed from the ML and IO web sites. Most recently, a City of Toronto report indicates that ML has provided the City with a 60% design for these grade separations. I do not have any means to pry this out of the City, likely would take a FOI request which is beyond my means. The point being - LSE is a pretty important part of the GO Expansion project, and it's a poor place to pinch pennies, if in fact that is happening.

As to the Scarborough flyover - this has been well discussed here previously. A flat junction cannot route trains to and from the two branching routes (LSE and Stouffville) without causing a great deal of routing conflicts. Routing conflicts are not just a single-point thing, because the approach zones (whether fixed or virtual blocks) lead to other trains receiving restrictive signal indications from the time the crossover route is lined until the crossing-over train has cleared. So trains at a distance will be slowed whenever there is a routing conflict. ML will have done the math thru simulations etc on how frequent this will happen and how much disruption there will be. But as a spectator, my layperson's guesstimate would be...... lots. I would have considered the flyover a very prudent investment. But we will see eventually.

So, if I have been crying wolf - I apologise. But I for one will be watching this one.

- Paul

 

[Northern Light]

I racked my brain and hunted my files in search of the questionable bridge de-scoping document that I remembered, without success - but I did recall a little more clearly how I noticed it. I believe it may be in some report sent to someone (Toronto City Council? A subcommittee? Community Council?) dealing with an adjacent property (possibly expropriation or land severance) and a drawing was attached which showed only a 2-track structure where the previous plans had been 3 or more. I'm not going to look further, either it is gone or I have more vivid nightmares than I realise . But from my best recollections I do believe it related to the LSE plans east of Guildwood.

In any event - earlier documentation re the LSE track expansion clearly specified that the LSE grade separations would be built to hold 3 tracks with protection for a fourth track. The entire project has been deferred and descoped, and much of the original documentation has been scrubbed from the ML and IO web sites. Most recently, a City of Toronto report indicates that ML has provided the City with a 60% design for these grade separations. I do not have any means to pry this out of the City, likely would take a FOI request which is beyond my means. The point being - LSE is a pretty important part of the GO Expansion project, and it's a poor place to pinch pennies, if in fact that is happening.

As to the Scarborough flyover - this has been well discussed here previously. A flat junction cannot route trains to and from the two branching routes (LSE and Stouffville) without causing a great deal of routing conflicts. Routing conflicts are not just a single-point thing, because the approach zones (whether fixed or virtual blocks) lead to other trains receiving restrictive signal indications from the time the crossover route is lined until the crossing-over train has cleared. So trains at a distance will be slowed whenever there is a routing conflict. ML will have done the math thru simulations etc on how frequent this will happen and how much disruption there will be. But as a spectator, my layperson's guesstimate would be...... lots. I would have considered the flyover a very prudent investment. But we will see eventually.

So, if I have been crying wolf - I apologise. But I for one will be watching this one.

- Paul

I'm still working on what the scope looks like................but I did some digging on timing............

The GO Expansion Grade Separations for the Scarborough crossings of the LSE are currently programmed for 2026-2029.

 

[smallspy]

I didn't know if the 15-minute service on the Stouffville line "consumed" too much of the 3rd and 4th tracks for the LSE to run an express on top of 15-minute service plus VIA.

With the way the signalling system is currently configured on the Kingston Sub, they can run 90mph trains every 5 minutes or so.

That's enough capacity for the immediate future, but depending on which version of the plans they are going to be using they will start to bump into the limits of what the signalling system is currently capable of in several years.

Dan