GO Transit: Construction Projects (Metrolinx, various)

[MrsNesbitt]

RFI on electric rolling stock and RFP on double-tracking Stouffville on the same day. GO is reaching big, and I like it

Two interesting points about the article:

1) Why specifically the Agincourt to Unionville section as opposed to starting at Scarborough Junction and moving north? Is Metrolinx waiting for the SRT to bite the dust and free up the corridor space before they start work in the area?

2) The article sneaks in a subtle jab at the Liberals (while basically crediting Tory with driving the improvemenrs...) over the promise of 15-min electrified GO service being watered down to only the busiest sections...where exactly has this been stated? Of course we're going to start slow, but the plans for slowly electrifying up to the edge of the GTHA don't seem to have disappeared, unless I'm more out of the loop than I thought.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Its basically something that Metrolinx can do quickly to improve service in the meantime.

It will likely be used as a passing track for hourly off peak train service to Mount Joy, If I had to hazard a guess. They are building a similar length double track stretch along the Barrie line between York University and Rutherford station. GO is probably hoping to get hourly off peak service running on the lines ASAP, and this will allow for it.

Eventually it will be upgraded to full 15 minute electrification.

Not sure where Oliver Moore got the idea that this is for Smart-Track, it has absolutely nothing to do with it right now. This upgrade is focused completely on GO transit.

As for why they are locating it here, it is likely because this is the rough area that trains are expected to pass each other on the line. Plus it can tie into the existing short double track section that runs under the CN bypass.

As for the 15 minute service thing, we have yet to see the details of the proposal. I don't blame the province for not running 15 minute service everywhere on the GO network, it doesn't really make sense to have a train pull out of stouffville every 15 minutes. What should happen however is get some sort of all day service on every part of the line, even if it is just hourly.

 

[MrsNesbitt]

Ah, this makes more sense then. Hourly off-peak would alone make a big difference—once more commuters from around the former Metro itself can place their faith in GO Transit as a reliable transit mode (I do wonder how many potential riders might feel uncomfortable parking at a GO Station within the City to which there is no GO Bus service in off-peak hours), I suspect we'll start to see calls to move RER-ification up considerably.

 

[reaperexpress]

Its basically something that Metrolinx can do quickly to improve service in the meantime.

It will likely be used as a passing track for hourly off peak train service to Mount Joy, If I had to hazard a guess. They are building a similar length double track stretch along the Barrie line between York University and Rutherford station. GO is probably hoping to get hourly off peak service running on the lines ASAP, and this will allow for it.

It is already possible to operate hourly off-peak service to Mount Joy with the current siding between Unionville and Milliken. Here is a potential schedule I threw together based on current (Feb 2015) travel times. Trains would end up crossing just south of Unionville, and just east of Danforth Station.

So why aren't we already doing this?

I'm guessing it's because the current bus service is actually better than hourly train service would be. Stations in Markham currently have service every 30 minutes or less to Union. And here's how the southbound travel times to Union compare:

Station: Bus (Train)
Mount Joy: 45 min (56 min)
Markham: 40 min (51 min)
Centennial: 46 min (46 min)
Unionville: 35 min (40 min)

My guess is that the purpose of lengthening the passing track is to facilitate hourly or half-hourly service from Union to Unionville, providing off-peak service to stations which currently lack any at all.

 

[innsertnamehere]

The existing double track is way too small for any useful service, it's only a couple train lengths long. 1.5km of double track is hardly suitable for nearly 300m trains. You can't schedule reliable service if trains have less than a 1 minute window to pass each other, it just doesn't work. Getting the passing track length up to 7km long will give them 6-7 minutes to pass, a large enough window for service to be reliable.

 

[MrsNesbitt]

It is already possible to operate hourly off-peak service to Mount Joy with the current siding between Unionville and Milliken. Here is a potential schedule I threw together based on current (Feb 2015) travel times. Trains would end up crossing just south of Unionville, and just east of Danforth Station.

So why aren't we already doing this?

I'm guessing it's because the current bus service is actually better than hourly train service would be. Stations in Markham currently have service every 30 minutes or less to Union. And here's how the southbound travel times to Union compare:

Station: Bus (Train)
Mount Joy: 45 min (56 min)
Markham: 40 min (51 min)
Centennial: 46 min (46 min)
Unionville: 35 min (40 min)

My guess is that the purpose of lengthening the passing track is to facilitate hourly or half-hourly service from Union to Unionville, providing off-peak service to stations which currently lack any at all.

I think the part about stations which lack service at all is the crux of the issue. Owing to the legally-entrenched monopoly of the TTC over passenger bus service within Toronto, GO buses leaving Union can't stop at those GO Stations (in this case, Kennedy/Agincourt/Milliken) that the trains can, and that has to be an enormous factor dissuading Toronto riders from choosing GO over TTC. What's the use in getting on a train at a station knowing that if you miss the limited number of return trips in the evening, there's no easy way (in some cases no way) to get back? It gets worse if you park at the station and then your car is sitting in the lot with little way to get to it.

Honestly, even hourly off-peak might start to drain pressure from the SRT. I doubt it'll put much of a dent in Scarborough residents' obsession with getting subways, though.

 

[crs1026]

i am pleased to see Metrolinx taking initiative over "low hanging fruit" opportunities where it can find them. The stretch from Scarboro Jct north to Sheppard has more neighbourhood sensitivities to it, and will require more consultation and debate - even without the complications of ST, Scarboro Subway, etc, etc. Doubetracking is a no brainer and more innocuous north of Sheppard so why let these other challenges hold it up.

As to the question of what was promised and what was later cut back, it's telling that the primary plan documents for all of this - MoveOntario 2020, GO 2020 and The Big Move - have never been updated. The plan remains what it always was. The best we can say about the election promises is that they were just that - extravagant and unresearched utterances which were simply intended to demonstrate the Liberals' transit friendliness to voters. As people started asking the detailed and critical questions, it becomes obvious how superficial those promises were. This is not to say that the Liberals aren't willing to expand the plan, or that they wont move directionally to that goal. But It will be enough to hold them to the 15-year goal that they set seven years ago in 2008.

- Paul

 

[Platform 27]

Owing to the legally-entrenched monopoly of the TTC over passenger bus service within Toronto, GO buses leaving Union can't stop at those GO Stations (in this case, Kennedy/Agincourt/Milliken) that the trains can...

Incorrect. The City of Toronto Act doesn't give the City a monopoly over buses, it gives it one over anything that provides scheduled public transit service, whether on tires or rails, with a whack of exemption clauses for things like charters, VIA, school buses etc. But the Province is exempt from the City of Toronto Act full stop. GO could legally provide bus, train, monorail, swan boat services anywhere in Toronto if it wanted to.

The reason there isn't GO bus service to those stations during the mid-day is because TTC subway+bus is more competitive for most customers. There were off-peak GO buses to Oriole and Old Cummer up until recently, IIRC, and they cancelled them because of low ridership.

 

[innsertnamehere]

arguably the most sensitive area of the line is north of Sheppard, where it runs feet from residential homes. The All Day service EA identified sound barriers to be put up along that stretch.

 

[reaperexpress]

The existing double track is way too small for any useful service, it's only a couple train lengths long. 1.5km of double track is hardly suitable for nearly 300m trains. You can't schedule reliable service if trains have less than a 1 minute window to pass each other, it just doesn't work. Getting the passing track length up to 7km long will give them 6-7 minutes to pass, a large enough window for service to be reliable.

Where did you get the length of the siding? I did a quick search but didn't find any recent info. Based on what I can see in Google Earth, the siding looks about 2.1 km long, from just south of the 407 to just north of Kennedy Rd.

The Barrie line operates its 3 km siding by scheduling in a 2 minute delay to trains in one of the directions, maybe this shorter siding would require a 3 minute delay instead.

The point is sort of moot anyway since neither of us actually thinks we should be operating the service with the current track configuration.

 

[innsertnamehere]

As someone who actually rides the line, The double track starts underneath the 407 and ends just before Denison. It doesn't travel over any at grade crossings. Trains usually take just over a minute to cross the stretch, and interestingly enough northbound trains typically use the siding. I've only seen another train on the siding once, and what I think happened was one of the early shortturning trains got stuck at unionville. My train was late departing Union by about 10 minutes, and a 10 car train ended up doing the run instead of a normal 12 car for that trip, and when we got up to Unionville there was a train parked on the siding. PARKED. I don't think GO dares try to have two moving trains pass on the siding, its way, way too short.

 

[canarob]

As someone else who uses this line everyday, I think this is great news of course...

I'm guessing it's because the current bus service is actually better than hourly train service would be. Stations in Markham currently have service every 30 minutes or less to Union. And here's how the southbound travel times to Union compare:

Station: Bus (Train)
Mount Joy: 45 min (56 min)
Markham: 40 min (51 min)
Centennial: 46 min (46 min)
Unionville: 35 min (40 min)

My guess is that the purpose of lengthening the passing track is to facilitate hourly or half-hourly service from Union to Unionville, providing off-peak service to stations which currently lack any at all.

...BUT this scares me a lot. Aside from Unionville itself, the busiest stations are all to the north (except Lincolnville): http://www.gotransit.com/public/en/improve/Stouffville_Rail_Expansion_PIC_1_EN.pdf (see page 17)

Replacing bus service with train service ending at Unionville (with the inevitable awkward connection) will drastically reduce the quality of service for the majority of (current) riders. Sure, you might get more riders at the 416 stops, but you may also turn existing riders back to the highways.

 

[drum118]

Metrolinx Expanding Section of Stouffville GO Line to Get Region Moving​

​

TORONTO: February 12, 2015 – Metrolinx has issued a construction tender to build a second track on a five-kilometre section of GO Transit’s Stouffville corridor to bring better transit to residents in Scarborough, Markham and Stouffville.

Work will start this spring between Kennedy Road north of Milliken GO Station and Marilyn Avenue just north of Agincourt GO Station. This is the first part of a multi-year project that will expand and improve 17 kilometres of corridorfrom Scarborough Junction to Unionville GO Station. Once complete, this expansion will enable more train trips and two-way service, supporting the Government of Ontario’s plan, under Moving Ontario Forward, to transform GO Transit by bringing Regional Express Rail service to the GO network.

“We are expanding transit and infrastructure for now and for the future,†said Steven Del Duca, Minister of Transportation. “These investments are part of a 10-year plan that will help to manage congestion, connect people to jobs, and improve the economy. This is further proof of our government’s commitment to making the daily commute and quality of life better for Ontario families.â€

“These types of improvements are critical in helping us bring faster, more frequent, two-way Regional Express Rail service to our GO Train network,†said Bruce McCuaig, President and CEO of Metrolinx. “This project will help us give our customers more transit choices that will save them time and make it easier to get where they want to go.â€

Double-tracking for the remainder of the 17 kilometres and additional station upgrades are still in the planning and design phases, with construction expected to begin in 2016.

This project is part of Metrolinx’s regional transportation plan to provide residents and businesses in the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area with fast, convenient and integrated transit. Working through its divisions GO Transit, PRESTO, and Union Pearson Express, Metrolinx is transforming the way the region moves.

Visit www.metrolinx.comfor more information.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Oh, I'm excited now. Off peak service on stouffville, probably before the end of the year? Hell ya!

The passing track should allow service to end at Mount Joy, not Unionville like the couple of off peak trains already run currently do. GO will have an hour to get up to Mt. Joy and back down to Unionville, which should be plenty, considering the travel time between the stations is only 15 minutes.

 

[ehlow]

Nice, double tracking Stouffville is great. North of Agincourt is through the residential area, the place Chow said is impossible to double track and went door to door rallying people against it .

Hopefully they actually take advantage of the extra track as well with more off peak service.