GO Transit: Construction Projects (Metrolinx, various)

[TOareaFan]

Nice, double tracking Stouffville is great. North of Agincourt is through the residential area, the place Chow said is impossible to double track and went door to door rallying people against it .

Hopefully they actually take advantage of the extra track as well with more off peak service.

They would never consider spending money expanding the infrastructure and not increasing service....would they?

 

[MrsNesbitt]

Incorrect. The City of Toronto Act doesn't give the City a monopoly over buses, it gives it one over anything that provides scheduled public transit service, whether on tires or rails, with a whack of exemption clauses for things like charters, VIA, school buses etc. But the Province is exempt from the City of Toronto Act full stop. GO could legally provide bus, train, monorail, swan boat services anywhere in Toronto if it wanted to.

The reason there isn't GO bus service to those stations during the mid-day is because TTC subway+bus is more competitive for most customers. There were off-peak GO buses to Oriole and Old Cummer up until recently, IIRC, and they cancelled them because of low ridership.

Interesting! I suppose this is an example of http://i.imgur.com/MK3EpeY.jpg

Oh, I'm excited now. Off peak service on stouffville, probably before the end of the year? Hell ya!

The passing track should allow service to end at Mount Joy, not Unionville like the couple of off peak trains already run currently do. GO will have an hour to get up to Mt. Joy and back down to Unionville, which should be plenty, considering the travel time between the stations is only 15 minutes.

This is a real concern though. Similar to talk of ending off-peak service on Kitchener at Bramalea instead of Mount Pleasant, Metrolinx may be trying to take the easy route to begin with—and in the process make trips harder for bus riders.

I'm still very excited about more GO Train service of any kind, but it's definitely of more worth to go all the way through Markham, where most riders are headed.

 

[TOareaFan]

This is a real concern though. Similar to talk of ending off-peak service on Kitchener at Bramalea instead of Mount Pleasant, Metrolinx may be trying to take the easy route to begin with—and in the process make trips harder for bus riders.

I'm still very excited about more GO Train service of any kind, but it's definitely of more worth to go all the way through Markham, where most riders are headed.

It is slightly different, I guess, because in the case of Bramalea it is, by far, the busiest station in the corridor....I think growth at Brampton and Mt. Pleasant is faster (anecdotal observation....take it for what its worth) but I think Bramalea will still be the busiest station for a long time to come).

That said, everything I have seen out of ML lately indicates they are going to focus on Mt. Pleasant as the point where service level changes.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Most growth in Brampton is going to come from the further out stations as there is little intensification occurring, so yes, Mt. Pleasant and Brampton would be the faster growing stations.

 

[MrsNesbitt]

Most growth in Brampton is going to come from the further out stations as there is little intensification occurring, so yes, Mt. Pleasant and Brampton would be the faster growing stations.

Mt. Pleasant is pretty fast-growing in suburban terms. Definitely the most important point is reaching at least Downtown Brampton station, since that's the location of the planned urban growth centre and mobility hub. Bramalea likely has such high ridership currently due to the large volume of parking and more importantly easy access to the 407.

 

[TOareaFan]

Mt. Pleasant is pretty fast-growing in suburban terms. Definitely the most important point is reaching at least Downtown Brampton station, since that's the location of the planned urban growth centre and mobility hub. Bramalea likely has such high ridership currently due to the large volume of parking and more importantly easy access to the 407.

I would agree that the parking influences Bramalea as a choice as does the fact it is a cheaper fare than the other Brampton stations......but the 407? I doubt there are a lot of people using the 407 to get to or from Bramalea station....where would they be coming from to use the 407?

 

[reaperexpress]

As someone else who uses this line everyday, I think this is great news of course...

...BUT this scares me a lot. Aside from Unionville itself, the busiest stations are all to the north (except Lincolnville): http://www.gotransit.com/public/en/improve/Stouffville_Rail_Expansion_PIC_1_EN.pdf (see page 17)

Replacing bus service with train service ending at Unionville (with the inevitable awkward connection) will drastically reduce the quality of service for the majority of (current) riders. Sure, you might get more riders at the 416 stops, but you may also turn existing riders back to the highways.

That was pretty much my point. If we replace the existing bus service with train service, either direct or via transfer at Unionville, it will be a significant drop in service quality for Markham residents.

I think the best option would be to maintain the current bus service from Mount Joy to Unionville to Union, and provide train service from Unionville to Union. But then we run into questions of ridership on the train given how uncompetitive GO's pricing makes shorter trips.

Interesting! I suppose this is an example of The More You Know.

This is a real concern though. Similar to talk of ending off-peak service on Kitchener at Bramalea instead of Mount Pleasant, Metrolinx may be trying to take the easy route to begin with—and in the process make trips harder for bus riders.

I'm still very excited about more GO Train service of any kind, but it's definitely of more worth to go all the way through Markham, where most riders are headed.

At least on the Kitchener line, passengers from Bramalea would see reduced travel times with trains. The bus takes 45-50 min, but even an all-stops train could probably do the trip in 35 minutes once construction is done.

On the Stouffville line, everybody loses with train service, even those starting directly at Unionville.

I would agree that the parking influences Bramalea as a choice as does the fact it is a cheaper fare than the other Brampton stations......but the 407? I doubt there are a lot of people using the 407 to get to or from Bramalea station....where would they be coming from to use the 407?

With all-day train service to Bramalea, there would be a massive increase in ridership on the 407 bus routes to Bramalea from Kitchener-Waterloo (30, 25F) and Guelph (39, 48). Currently most GO trips from these western cities go via Square One, and are vulnerable to traffic variability on the Gardiner.

 

[innsertnamehere]

if you consider "losing" by getting out of a bus, yes. I bet you more people would take the train off peak than the bus simply because its a train.

Its no different than Lakeshore east, off peak it would be faster to have an express bus run out to Pickering from downtown. But does that mean that it is a better service? absolutely not.

 

[TOareaFan]

if you consider "losing" by getting out of a bus, yes. I bet you more people would take the train off peak than the bus simply because its a train.

Its no different than Lakeshore east, off peak it would be faster to have an express bus run out to Pickering from downtown. But does that mean that it is a better service? absolutely not.

It is an interesting discussion. I, too, think more people would use a train service than a bus service....but I have had discussions lately with some people who are "worried" that when AD2W service is introduced (whenever that is) on the KW line that their current frequent off peak bus service gets replaced with hourly trains. Their logic is that they lose out if they just miss a train and have to wait an hour for the next one they are worse off (comparing "arrive at home" time compared to "actual travel" time) than they were with the more frequent bus service.

I would think a workable solution to this element of the discussion is that whenever any line gets AD2W and that is less frequent than the previous buses there is alternating service (ie. trains on the hour and buses on the half hour) so that frequency is not affected.

The bigger issue is, IMO, how you service the people who travel from beyond the end of the frequent train. Again, from a GT/KW line perspective, my experience was that the old 6;45 pm westbound train that ended at Bramalea never really got the use it warranted because people living beyond Bramalea just hated switching to a bus and enduring the extended travel time that created. When the train was extended to Georgetown (the, now, 6:50 train) ridership really increased....to the point, now, where it looks nearly as full as the train "immediately" before it (the 5:45).

 

[innsertnamehere]

Mount Joy is the effective end of the stouffville line in that sense, People in Stouffville and further can receive lower service levels.

Now if only they could make the Uxbridge bus run every hour.

 

[canarob]

Also, don't forget the early evening express buses. I travel to Markham Station, so many of my bus trips are express to my stop, so it's sometimes as fast as 25 minutes versus 50 on the train. It's also sometimes 90 minutes when the bus is in traffic -- and the crowding concerns, and the lower comfort, etc. -- so I do realize that train service will be required one way or another in the near future. If it's hourly service to Mount Joy, that would be a huge improvement. As I've said before, there had better be an express-like GO service in place when "smart track" rolls out, or it's going to be a nightmare for existing riders with all those stops, even with faster electric trains. I don't care if it means expropriating land to build even more passing track in the future, it needs to happen.

Mount Joy is the effective end of the stouffville line in that sense, People in Stouffville and further can receive lower service levels.

At least forcing Stouffville riders to take a bus from a train ending at Mount Joy would cut out some of the time needed for the bus to work its way through Markham, which might might offset some of the extra time on the train versus the highway portion of the bus route.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Is there a place to turn the trains around at mount joy?

 

[Hairball]

Is there a place to turn the trains around at mount joy?

Right now those trains that terminate at Unionville, they just sit at the platform and immediately turn back around to head to Union nonstop, it doesn't go on any tailing track or anything. No reason that can't be done at Mount Joy if that becomes the all day terminus.

I agree with earlier discussions, off peak buses are often much faster than the train when traffic is good, it's a mixed bag, plus chances are the train will be hourly instead of 20-30 minute buses.

 

[dowlingm]

Nice, double tracking Stouffville is great. North of Agincourt is through the residential area, the place Chow said is impossible to double track and went door to door rallying people against it .

While Chow focused on the wrong flaw in Tory's plan (Agincourt, not Eglinton West) what she said there was not that double tracking was "impossible" but that it would require expropriation of some residential structures. Do we know if Metrolinx have ruled out expropriation during this project?

 

[innsertnamehere]

it doesn't require expropriation. Just sound barriers.

The corridor is wide enough for 2 tracks for its entire length.