GO Transit: Construction Projects (Metrolinx, various)

[vegeta_skyline]

I'm all for GO building more of their own trackage where ever possible and I'd agree that in order for to get frequent RER service west of Burlington station GO will have to separate passenger traffic in some way from CN's freight traffic coming off the Halton & Dundas sub's. For a start they are already planning a 4th track between Burlington & Aldershot.

Nice job on the map btw, though its a little overbuilt in certain spots. One track would be sufficient for CN traffic coming off the Oakville/Dundas towards to the Grimsby. They don't have enough traffic heading that way to need anything more than the occasional passing track for their own traffic. Anything more would be just spoiling them since it would be paid for by GO in any event. And actually right now the line is just single tracked between Hamilton Jct & James street, the northern track being a yard track. I figure if not for the VIA traffic back then, they probably would of ripped up more than just 10 miles of the second track between Grimsby & St Catherines.

As for the slow order, unfortunately as was discussed a few pages back on this thread(see Sept 15th for specifics) the PSO extending until m.39 has more to do with the number of crossings and poor sightlines rather than CN's maintenance practices. In addition, I'm sure the powers that be are aware of the serious trespasser issue in the area. If we were to operate at 60mph through there, chances are we'd probably hit at least one person every day. Ultimately they'll have to grade separate the busiest crossings and construct a proper barrier in order to eliminate the PSO through there. By no means impossible, but the line will need a lot more money to get it up to snuff. Once that happens GO will probably just share the maintenance costs with CN through the current double track section west of James st where GO's 2 tracks could then merge with CN's 1 into a shared 2 track section, enough for peak service needs between Hamilton and the Yard.

 

[reaperexpress]

I'm all for GO building more of their own trackage where ever possible and I'd agree that in order for to get frequent RER service west of Burlington station GO will have to separate passenger traffic in some way from CN's freight traffic coming off the Halton & Dundas sub's. For a start they are already planning a 4th track between Burlington & Aldershot.

Nice job on the map btw, though its a little overbuilt in certain spots. One track would be sufficient for CN traffic coming off the Oakville/Dundas towards to the Grimsby. They don't have enough traffic heading that way to need anything more than the occasional passing track for their own traffic. Anything more would be just spoiling them since it would be paid for by GO in any event. And actually right now the line is just single tracked between Hamilton Jct & James street, the northern track being a yard track. I figure if not for the VIA traffic back then, they probably would of ripped up more than just 10 miles of the second track between Grimsby & St Catherines.

Thanks for the info. I know next to nothing about freight traffic, I was just guessing based on the number of tracks existing in the current condition with basically no passenger service. What you said about VIA makes sense if there's little freight traffic.

As for the slow order, unfortunately as was discussed a few pages back on this thread(see Sept 15th for specifics) the PSO extending until m.39 has more to do with the number of crossings and poor sightlines rather than CN's maintenance practices. In addition, I'm sure the powers that be are aware of the serious trespasser issue in the area. If we were to operate at 60mph through there, chances are we'd probably hit at least one person every day. Ultimately they'll have to grade separate the busiest crossings and construct a proper barrier in order to eliminate the PSO through there. By no means impossible, but the line will need a lot more money to get it up to snuff. Once that happens GO will probably just share the maintenance costs with CN through the current double track section west of James st where GO's 2 tracks could then merge with CN's 1 into a shared 2 track section, enough for peak service needs between Hamilton and the Yard.

Sorry, I must have missed that discussion. I guess in that case there is not so much benefit to having a dedicated line east of Hamilton station.

 

[mdrejhon]

though its a little overbuilt in certain spots.

Underbuilt. GO RER Hamilton needs to park electric trains overnight at Lewis.

Besides, they actually are including room for 4 tracks (and a platform) on the new rail overpass they're already building over Centennial Parkway (place of Confederation GO station). So reaperexpress' fantasy map is already being realized in this specific location. The bridge will be open 2015, on time for PanAm games (out of necessity to expedite the Lewis layover trains) although the Confederation GO station won't open on time for PanAm, but very easily by 2016-2017 at the rate of the current pace of work and the Confederation GO station platform provision being built-in into the new rail overpass bridge they're building. It's be crazy not to put up Confederation if they're laying over at Lewis. So that section of the fantasy map becomes a true story already, well before 2030.

Metrolinx has no choice, if they're going to make electricified GO RER possible to Hamilton

Sorry, I must have missed that discussion. I guess in that case there is not so much benefit to having a dedicated line east of Hamilton station.

Hamiltion is actually in the final phase of Metrolinx GO RER electricification (Phase 7). 15-min RER service to Hamilton.

If we get all-day 15-min (or even 30-min offpeak, 15-min peak) electric RER service to Hamilton by the 2030s, we'll need your complete fantasy map in full, especially if Lewis becomes an electricified-train-capable depot. I don't see any other depots near Aldershot with enough storage to permit morning peak period startup of 15-minute-frequency (possibly more frequent at peak) all day electric service. Aldershot/Burlington isn't getting electric 15-minute all-day GO RER without the help of Lewis (unless CN micraculously gives up the Aldershot trainyard to Metrolinx). Viola. GO RER is forced to electricfy all the way to Lewis, once they want to electricify to Aldershot. No choice!! But an 8-track Lewis depot makes GO RER possible at Aldershot! Lewis has provisions to expand to 8-track. With that many tracks at Lewis, heck, we may end up needing 2 Metrolinx owned tracks to Lewis, if CN doesn't want to let go of one of their two lines. At the very minimum, certainly 2 Metrolinx tracks all the way to Confederation. I saw electricified RER to JamesNorth on one of the Metrolinx proposal PDFs as a later-stage expansion, but I can't find it now. Where are they going to store the electric RER trains overnight to start up the morning peak service? Bingo -- Lewis. The only Metrolinx-owned location near Lakeshore West terminus, capable of storing enough trains for 15-minute electricified service.

Certainly, they'll begin with 30 minute diesel service at first (moving the terminus from Aldershot to Confederation, ETA 2016-2017, once Lewis has capacity & they finish Confederation), but once they finally electricify to Hamilton -- they might as well electricify all the way to Lewis.

Add a Metrolinx double track between JamesNorth and Confederation GO stations to your fantasy map, make the crossover an underpass (already being discussed) and I think your fantasy map becomes a little more accurate for GO RER Hamilton 2030s. Your fantasy map isn't a fantasy in the 2030s if GO RER ends up needing to electricify Lewis.

This fantasy map is actually an underestimate for realistic GO RER 2030 -- upgrade your fantasy map!

 

[DC83]

JamesNorth GO (Hamilton) Update

As of today, Sat Jan 17th.. 5 more months til PanAm
(taken by me)

 

[reaperexpress]

Underbuilt. GO RER Hamilton needs to park electric trains overnight at Lewis.

I think Vegeta was mostly referring to the CN portion of the map, where I had mistaken a yard track as a mainline and as a result had shown the Grimsby sub as fully double tracked.

Besides, they actually are including room for 4 tracks (and a platform) on the new rail overpass they're already building over Centennial Parkway (place of Confederation GO station). So reaperexpress' fantasy map is already being realized in this specific location. The bridge will be open 2015, on time for PanAm games (out of necessity to expedite the Lewis layover trains) although the Confederation GO station won't open on time for PanAm, but very easily by 2016-2017 at the rate of the current pace of work and the Confederation GO station platform provision being built-in into the new rail overpass bridge they're building. It's be crazy not to put up Confederation if they're laying over at Lewis. So that section of the fantasy map becomes a true story already, well before 2030.

Yes, I have seen the designs for the new bridge, and I was trying to reproduce them in that map.

Add a Metrolinx double track between JamesNorth and Confederation GO stations to your fantasy map, make the crossover an underpass (already being discussed) and I think your fantasy map becomes a little more accurate for GO RER Hamilton 2030s. Your fantasy map isn't a fantasy in the 2030s if GO RER ends up needing to electricify Lewis.

This fantasy map is actually an underestimate for realistic GO RER 2030 -- upgrade your fantasy map!

The crossover is supposed to be grade separated in the image, I faded the CN line to represent that, but it didn't come out very clearly. Based on Vegeta's comments that there isn't much freight traffic, your desire for more tracks between James St and Confederation could be managed simply by claiming one of the CN tracks. So rather than 2 CN and 1 GO, there could be 1 CN and 2 GO, with generally the same configuration.

 

[vegeta_skyline]

I think Vegeta was mostly referring to the CN portion of the map, where I had mistaken a yard track as a mainline and as a result had shown the Grimsby sub as fully double tracked.

Yes that's correct. The GO portion was fine it was just the freight service that was overrepresented.

The crossover is supposed to be grade separated in the image, I faded the CN line to represent that, but it didn't come out very clearly. Based on Vegeta's comments that there isn't much freight traffic, your desire for more tracks between James St and Confederation could be managed simply by claiming one of the CN tracks. So rather than 2 CN and 1 GO, there could be 1 CN and 2 GO, with generally the same configuration.

Absolutely, 2 tracks for GO would be optimal. I don't know what CN's long term plans are for the Grimsby subdivision but the level of traffic they've had down there hasn't really justified anything more than a single track for many years now(with a siding or two for trains meets). If volumes were to further drop in the future I don't see why they wouldn't just try to sell it off to GO as the line becomes more important(for GO) and service continues to increase. CN would of course retain running rights but GO could dictate track time availability. If that happens all GO would need is the upgrade the current two tracks. If not then that's when other options like using one of CN's if it were made available to them, plus a new track could be an option.

 

[Uncle Teddy]

Thanks for the Hamilton photo update.

 

[drum118]

Was out to Burlington last week and very little going on at Clarkson. They have started to install the door frames for the elevators at grade only. Lots of mesh framing still missing.

90% of the roof is on for Burlington New Station. Notice up saying Burlington Hydro is increasing power to the New Station and the station is now schedule to miss the spring date and become a summer date.

Totally unbelievable how screw up these projects are being done by Bondfield Construction and Metrolinx rolling over to allow it happen in the first place. Brock a 14 story apartment building in Burlington started after work stated on the station and will have new residents before this station opens. You can add No210 Simcoe St as another example that is larger and taller than Brock and will be completed before the 2 stations and it started after them.

Bronte South Side platform is being rebuilt with the eastern tunnel close as well the accessibility platform. They were building a temporarily platform at the west end and only haft the cars will have access to the platform.

New crews being train and you can tell how they arrive and depart stations, as well the speed between station. Can't remember when there hasn't been a training crew on my train to Burlington. Driver was stopping short of the access platform by a few feet and then creep up to it, even with the signs at Burlington.

 

[DC83]

Thanks for the Hamilton photo update.

No Prob! Kinda pathetic tho, eh?
No way that station (even in 'basic functional form') will be ready by July 2015.

 

[chriskayTO]

I'm really curious what they're going to do between now and the games - it HAS to be in operation for the games - it's an integral part of the transportation plan.

 

[mrxbombastic]

I suspect we will be looking at 24 hour work cycles once the temps get a bit better with metrolinx pretty much going like this to make it happen on time in some basic form with at least one track in operation.

 

[nfitz]

I'm really curious what they're going to do between now and the games - it HAS to be in operation for the games - it's an integral part of the transportation plan.

Presumably all you need is an asphalt platform, a wooden accessible area. And someway to drive down the connecting shuttles. I don't think you'd need any structures.

 

[DC83]

I'm really curious what they're going to do between now and the games - it HAS to be in operation for the games - it's an integral part of the transportation plan.

I've been down there about 3 times in the past month, and don't usually see workers :/
Now my pics were taken on a Sat, but being that far behind in construction you would think there would be workers on site 7 days a week!

 

[wopchop]

I've been down there about 3 times in the past month, and don't usually see workers :/
Now my pics were taken on a Sat, but being that far behind in construction you would think there would be workers on site 7 days a week!

We don't really know that it actually is behind schedule at all. Unless I am missing something here.

 

[mpd618]

According to this CTV Kitchener video, the new GO Transit facility on Shirley Ave in Kitchener will have indoor storage and maintenance space for four trains and 30 buses.