GO Transit: Construction Projects (Metrolinx, various)

[innsertnamehere]

that would stop the interference of CN trains, which enter the corridor an the east side and exit on the west side, it basically lets the passenger and freight trains run separately. it would be a large overpass structure similar to the one in the USRC today.

 

[vegeta_skyline]

where's the grade sep west of Mount Pleasant? They mean Brampton or maybe Georgetown, surely?

It will be between Mississauga Rd. & Winston Churchill. Until that point GO trains will be on the south side of the corridor then switch over to the north to get onto the Guelph Sub completely eliminating any delays related to crossing over tracks and conflicts with CN freight trains. They had something similar planned for Hamilton Jct. but there's no longer any reference to that. Then again it really wasn't justifiable anyways for 8 train movements a day coming from the CP station and limited traffic on the Hamilton sub. Plus the move towards increasing future train service to Hamilton via the CN corridor.

This also means;
- Indicates there is no expectation of CN re-routing their mainline(i.e. via the ever so popular hydro corridor proposal for instance), not that it was a realistic expectation to begin with.
- The VIA station at Georgetown on the south side will be closed and rebuilt onto the north side along with GO's future mainline platforms & station.
- There will be a 70mph(approx.) speed restriction, which won't really effect regular GO service but will slow HSR service through the area.

 

[innsertnamehere]

At this point in time isn't it still early enough to ensure the design of it will allow for higher speeds? maybe make the freight trains pass underneath with the passenger service continuing unabated above, allowing for a full speed corridor?


Also, completely unrelated, but you can see a plane on google maps on the rail corridor just east of Winston Churchill. Heh.

 

[vegeta_skyline]

True, it is still to early to say for certain. The USRC flyover is about 0.65 miles long including approaches but is limited to 60mph due to the vertical & horizontal track curvatures. The Strachan & West Toronto are about the same length and will be limited to 70mph due to the vertical curvature alone which is the standard that I assume would be applied here, though the tunnel here will have to be slightly longer to accommodate 70mph to lessen the effect of the horizontal curvature of going from one side of the corridor to the other.

There is almost 3 times the space between Mississauga Rd. & Winston Churchill so they definitely could engineer it for a higher speed. It's a question of how much money they are willing to spend since incremental increases in speed would require much larger increases in tunnel distance and overall cost, which is why I'm not too confident about them going for the more optimal solution ratter then just the one that does the job at the lowest cost which seems to be the status quo.

Having freight go under would be the optimal solution for HSR, but unfortunately is a non-starter for the owners of the line. There's no chance CN would ever agree to anything that could be the slightest bit problematic for them or degrade their on-time performance by a fraction of a %. i.e. suffering an engine failure in the tunnel with insufficient traction in the remaining units to bring it up the grade would have to be separated and moved piece by piece taking up a large amount of track time. It's the kind of thing can happen anywhere a freight breaks down on a grade. Though they do have some legitimate concerns in this respect. It's a much more difficult to control a freight vs passenger train going over several grade changes. It would change the way trains approach that location, resulting in incremental delays and likely increase the wear on the track and train braking system. And they're perfectly fine with the status quo as is having the right of way through there.

Also, completely unrelated, but you can see a plane on google maps on the rail corridor just east of Winston Churchill. Heh.

I was wondering what you were talking about but there is it is. Wow is it ever exaggerated.

 

[ShonTron]

It seems odd to be talking about a Norval flyunder before there's three tracks built through Downtown Brampton and a new station configuration there.

 

[reaperexpress]

Ah, that's a bit more change. The full design for 4 trains, or did they cobble something together in the short-term.

Gosh, if they are all the way out there, why not build the Confederation GO station as well?

I had the plans for the yard somewhere but I can't find them. The initial 4-train arrangement is only a partial build-out, the full build out was around 6-8 trains if I recall correctly.

The original plan was to store the planned 2015 trains at the Hamilton James Street North station platform, but for some reason they realized this was not practical. Metrolinx then needed to find somewhere ASAP, and the Lewis Road facility was shovel-ready, presumably related to the Niagara Rail Corridor Expansion EA. Located 18 kilometres beyond James Street North, it would be far from the most efficient use of operator/train time, but it was the only way to get service to Hamilton North by 2015.

So Metrolinx embarked on a lightning-speed construction schedule, bypassing the normal municipal approval and review process. As an agency of the Province, which has absolute power over municipalities, they aren't required to go through the municipal process but normally they do so anyway out of courtesy.

Confederation GO station is progressing well, but the initial implementation is only an "interim park-and-ride bus facility". However, given that Lewis Road Layover will now be built way ahead of schedule, I am confident that Metrolinx will fast-track the full build-out of Confederation Station. It's really low-hanging fruit given that trains will already be passing by anyway.

It will be between Mississauga Rd. & Winston Churchill. Until that point GO trains will be on the south side of the corridor then switch over to the north to get onto the Guelph Sub completely eliminating any delays related to crossing over tracks and conflicts with CN freight trains. They had something similar planned for Hamilton Jct. but there's no longer any reference to that. Then again it really wasn't justifiable anyways for 8 train movements a day coming from the CP station and limited traffic on the Hamilton sub. Plus the move towards increasing future train service to Hamilton via the CN corridor.

I think a Hamilton grade separation will become increasingly attractive, because GO trains are on the lake side of CN trains joining in at Burlington, but have to cross to the landward side to access the James Street North station. The planned configuration of Centennial station is an island platform between two new tracks south of the existing pair. A new third track is planned between the pair of stations south of the existing pair, and I think that Metrolinx should operate it as their own dedicated line built to much higher standards than the painfully-slow CN line. This would be a similar configuration to the FrontRunner system in Utah, which operates on a dedicated single-track railway within existing freight corridors.

 

[vegeta_skyline]

I think a Hamilton grade separation will become increasingly attractive, because GO trains are on the lake side of CN trains joining in at Burlington, but have to cross to the landward side to access the James Street North station. The planned configuration of Centennial station is an island platform between two new tracks south of the existing pair. A new third track is planned between the pair of stations south of the existing pair, and I think that Metrolinx should operate it as their own dedicated line built to much higher standards than the painfully-slow CN line. This would be a similar configuration to the FrontRunner system in Utah, which operates on a dedicated single-track railway within existing freight corridors.

Yes that's true, GO movements would have to crossover tracks to get to the James st. station, but I'm not so sure it would be the best use of funds at this time. I don't know what the exact numbers are but the Grimbsy sub is only lightly used by CN and has been for some time now. In contrast CP's Hamilton sub seems to see a fair bit more traffic in that general direction. That could always change but it doesn't help that the future of U.S. Steel, at one time the largest sources of local freight traffic, looks rather bleak. By the lack of it being mentioned I can only surmise that GO has had discussions with CN and has determined that based on the number of train movements the line will see it will not be necessary or beneficial to build it for the time being.

As for the slow track, they are re-constructing the mainline south of its current position much in the same way they re-routed the mainline around Oakville yard when the 3rd track was added in 2009-10. You can see the work underway in the following link where CN's Hamilton yard cargo flo was previously located; http://www.railpictures.ca/?attachment_id=16372 Safe to say that the existing 30mph PSO will no longer be required on the new track, at least through the portion being rebuilt.

 

[dowlingm]

Looking at the area around Georgetown, it does make sense to do the flyunder nearer to MP (presuming the distance between the junction and Georgetown station is too limited to accommodate given the freights are already coming off a curve from the south) given what look like sensitive lands immediately east of G'town.

If the station operations were moved to the north track but parking was retained on the south end, it would be nice if the station building was retained with the possibility of operating a shuttle service to Milton or beyond from a small UPX style bay notched in to the immediate west of the station. This would then still allow removal of the main platform on the station building's north side, if this was desired for optimal freight operations.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

For a flyunder structure, what about the CN south side yard between Kennedy and Rutherford, east of Brampton? Is this still in use? maybe that would provide enough ROW space?

 

[mdrejhon]

I did some hunting down of the docs relating to Hamilton expansion:

2014 updates relating to Lewis Road layover facility:
Homepage - http://www.gotransit.com/public/en/improve/projects/lewis_road_facility.aspx
May 2014 - http://www.gotransit.com/public/en/improve/projects/201408_Lewis_Road_EN.pdf
Aug 2014 - http://www.gotransit.com/public/en/improve/projects/20140829_Lewis_Road_EN.pdf
Lewis Road layover construction began in May 2014 is ongoing at the moment. It seems the intent is to have it already partially operational by PanAm, at least to serve the PanAm games, with full completion by 2016.

Re: Confederation GO station/Lewis layover related: For the last couple years, Metrolinx has been working on the Centennial Park rail overpass reconstruction:
http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2229854-cn-says-bridge-replacement-is-off-track/ (city on hook for $10M)
http://www.hamiltonnews.com/news/centennial-detour-construction-starts-monday/ (construction began 2013)

This replaces a nearly 100-year-old bridge, and adds a third track, aligned perfectly for a future Confederation GO station right in that location, including a platform built into the rail overpass under construction (Direct quote from news: "...will add an extra track, and a platform to accommodate an expected GO transit service..."). An interesting older backstory happened with this bridge: It was an orphaned bridge! It was forgotten who owned the bridge, until the 1990s. In the big provincial downloading of the 90s, it was apparently City of Hamilton that owned the bridge:
http://www.guelphmercury.com/news-s...nsible-for-two-of-hamilton-s-mystery-bridges/

I imagine Metrolinx and CP probably agreed to some kind of a cost-sharing agreement with the City of Hamilton, on an accelerated rail overpass replacement/expansion. Since one of the platforms for the upcoming Confederation GO station already is built into the new overpass (see overlap), it would be interesting for someone to go take some photos of the site, to see how it's currently configured.

I guess it is no longer a question of "if", but "when"...

 

[Allandale25]

I imagine Metrolinx and CP probably agreed to some kind of a cost-sharing agreement with the City of Hamilton....

I think you meant CN, correct?

 

[Allandale25]

For a flyunder structure, what about the CN south side yard between Kennedy and Rutherford, east of Brampton? Is this still in use? maybe that would provide enough ROW space?

I would assume that as others have mentioned, the grading with rail over rail separations could be an issue and with the location you've indicated, the rail goes over the road on the east (Rutherford) and west (Kennedy) sides. I could be wrong. Also, I think the other point raised was about the side of the track (North or South) most optimal for GO and CN. Which raises another question, about what will happen at the Brampton Station? Would the third track go on the North or South side? It's been posted before so apologies for not remembering. Maybe I should do a map/graphic.

I believe I read someone say that going Westbound, GO trains would be on the South side of Bramalea GO, South side of Brampton, South side of Mount Pleasant, take the rail over rail separation and go to the North side of the track, and at Georgetown stop on the North side (with the historic station move from the South side and rebuilt on the North side of the tracks). Did I get that right?

 

[mdrejhon]

I think you meant CN, correct?

Whoops, yes, you're right. Easy to make the confusion.

 

[Hairball]

The West platform has opened at Markham GO and everyone loves it. Boarding from both sides seems to be speeding things up as well. It will be a shame if we ever get a second track and this all has to be destroyed though.

10-15 years ago there actually was a second track at Markham GO, I think they removed it to reduce maintenance costs. But if we are ever to get GO RER, the stations are probably going to be rebuilt anyway so it isn't that big of a deal.

 

[reaperexpress]

Yes that's true, GO movements would have to crossover tracks to get to the James st. station, but I'm not so sure it would be the best use of funds at this time. I don't know what the exact numbers are but the Grimbsy sub is only lightly used by CN and has been for some time now. In contrast CP's Hamilton sub seems to see a fair bit more traffic in that general direction. That could always change but it doesn't help that the future of U.S. Steel, at one time the largest sources of local freight traffic, looks rather bleak. By the lack of it being mentioned I can only surmise that GO has had discussions with CN and has determined that based on the number of train movements the line will see it will not be necessary or beneficial to build it for the time being.

No, indeed. Certainly not the best use of funds at this time, but as I said, increasingly attractive in the future if we want to extend local service to Hamilton in addition to regional service continuing through to Niagara Falls.

As for the slow track, they are re-constructing the mainline south of its current position much in the same way they re-routed the mainline around Oakville yard when the 3rd track was added in 2009-10. You can see the work underway in the following link where CN's Hamilton yard cargo flo was previously located; http://www.railpictures.ca/?attachment_id=16372 Safe to say that the existing 30mph PSO will no longer be required on the new track, at least through the portion being rebuilt.

I don't know how I missed this project, that's really great news. But the CN line is slow all the way out to milepost 39.0, and I'm wondering if rather than paying to upgrade and maintain all of CN's tracks, it would be cheaper to build a new dedicated passenger track to the south between James Street and Confederation. I had in mind something like this: