Jdot
Active Member
Just think of what Toronto could be of only it got the millions of dollars each year that Chicago gets from it's federal government.....
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Globe: What's wrong with Toronto? Nothing a good mayor couldn't fix
- Thread starter nstuch
- Start date
JasonParis
Moderator
...more like billions.
adma
Superstar
Crombie wasn't? Sure, it might have been a different form of "greatness"; but, still.
In which case, an overwrought desire for "great leadership" can be treacherous, indeed; compare Crombie to Montreal's more conventionally "great" Drapeau--Expo/Metro notwithstanding, it might be argued we got the better deal...
Tewder
Senior Member
I stand corrected.
E
Erik T
Guest
A minute late and a dollar short, but here goes...
I read that column a couple of weeks ago and I found it most infuriating. The Sun ran a similar story. First off, for any rightoid concerned about David Miller and unions, compare him to Richard Daley's spectacular Democrat-based fundraising machine, which has gotten the Chicago mayor in trouble more than once.
To the people whining about David Miller not being Richard Daley- do you really want to trade Toronto's problems/ Mayor for Chicago's problems/ Mayor?
These Daley-groupies have all stated they are opposed to Miller getting the sort of legislative powers enjoyed by Daley Jr. Even funnier, they all opposed Miller's own opposition to the Island airport. They wouldn't support David Miller's attempts to shut the airport down legally, but they'll kiss Richard Daley's ass for sending in bulldozers. If David Miller sent in bulldozers, the right wing press (Sun and Post, along with columnists like Wente and Blatchford at the Globe) would line up to call him a dictator.
These same bozos tend to complain about crime an awful lot, yet the best they can do when comparing Chicago and Toronto crime is mention percentage increases and decreases in each population's murder rate. What year did Toronto have 600 homicides? I think Chicago often has around 900 murders in a year..?
The people who compare Regent Park or Jane-Finch to American ghettos clearly haven't set foot in one.
Anyhow, just my late two cents on why Torontonians who wish we were more like Chicago, with a Richard Daley type at the helm, should think carefully about what they are asking for.
I read that column a couple of weeks ago and I found it most infuriating. The Sun ran a similar story. First off, for any rightoid concerned about David Miller and unions, compare him to Richard Daley's spectacular Democrat-based fundraising machine, which has gotten the Chicago mayor in trouble more than once.
To the people whining about David Miller not being Richard Daley- do you really want to trade Toronto's problems/ Mayor for Chicago's problems/ Mayor?
These Daley-groupies have all stated they are opposed to Miller getting the sort of legislative powers enjoyed by Daley Jr. Even funnier, they all opposed Miller's own opposition to the Island airport. They wouldn't support David Miller's attempts to shut the airport down legally, but they'll kiss Richard Daley's ass for sending in bulldozers. If David Miller sent in bulldozers, the right wing press (Sun and Post, along with columnists like Wente and Blatchford at the Globe) would line up to call him a dictator.
These same bozos tend to complain about crime an awful lot, yet the best they can do when comparing Chicago and Toronto crime is mention percentage increases and decreases in each population's murder rate. What year did Toronto have 600 homicides? I think Chicago often has around 900 murders in a year..?
The people who compare Regent Park or Jane-Finch to American ghettos clearly haven't set foot in one.
Anyhow, just my late two cents on why Torontonians who wish we were more like Chicago, with a Richard Daley type at the helm, should think carefully about what they are asking for.
H
Hydrogen
Guest
The point being that city governmnets are not the same. It would be illegal for Miller to send in bulldozers to close the Island Airport.
People have argued in favour of the "strong mayor" stance given that mayors of Ontario cities are all too often glorified members of council. But then there is a worry that mayors will have too much power, so the glow of that idea of a powerful mayor fades.
What a mayor like Miller could do is to promote the things he believes in, to actively and constantly publicise what can be done for the city, to highlight examples, push certain projects and engage people in becoming more aware of the value of those projects (and his agenda). He may not have the power to initiate action, but he could set a clear direction and promote it constantly. The trouble is that Miller makes pronouncements, then seems to vanish from the scene. However, if you speak with the man, you quickly understand that he is intelligent and knows plenty about the city and its situation. But his actions leave one with the impression that he has a hard time organizing himself, or choosing what he wants to focus on.
People have argued in favour of the "strong mayor" stance given that mayors of Ontario cities are all too often glorified members of council. But then there is a worry that mayors will have too much power, so the glow of that idea of a powerful mayor fades.
What a mayor like Miller could do is to promote the things he believes in, to actively and constantly publicise what can be done for the city, to highlight examples, push certain projects and engage people in becoming more aware of the value of those projects (and his agenda). He may not have the power to initiate action, but he could set a clear direction and promote it constantly. The trouble is that Miller makes pronouncements, then seems to vanish from the scene. However, if you speak with the man, you quickly understand that he is intelligent and knows plenty about the city and its situation. But his actions leave one with the impression that he has a hard time organizing himself, or choosing what he wants to focus on.
Tewder
Senior Member
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Tewder:
And what has he done to be considered as an "in spite"? It isn't like he is actively sabotaging the city, contrary to what Wente is thinking.
AoD
And what has he done to be considered as an "in spite"? It isn't like he is actively sabotaging the city, contrary to what Wente is thinking.
AoD
CDL.TO
Moderator
I think that's a fair usage. Even if Miller had done absolutely nothing it would still be "in spite" of him, the opposite of "because" of him.
Tewder
Senior Member
Thanks CDL, that is my meaning.
I don't feel that Miller is bad or evil, or actively against the city. I am just not aware of anything major he has accomplished, given that his mandate(s) has coincided with what arguably is one of the greatest economic and cultural growth spurts the city has experienced.
In the 'Corus' thread the Miller question was raised again, and I proposed a discussion of it. Maybe it is more appropriate here.
I don't feel that Miller is bad or evil, or actively against the city. I am just not aware of anything major he has accomplished, given that his mandate(s) has coincided with what arguably is one of the greatest economic and cultural growth spurts the city has experienced.
In the 'Corus' thread the Miller question was raised again, and I proposed a discussion of it. Maybe it is more appropriate here.
syn
Senior Member
-City of Toronto Act
-Increased funding from the Federal & Provincial Governments
-A greater focus on the arts and city beautification
-Waterfront progress
Miller certainly isn't perfect, but I like the track he's on. He just needs to be more assertive.
H
Hydrogen
Guest
^I think you are being way too general here.
The City of Toronto act is courtesy of the provincial government. The idea has been bounced around for decades.
Increased funding from the federal and provincial governments: how so and what? One could easily thank Mel Lastman as well (most recently).
A greater focus on the arts and beautification: again, how so and to what end?
Waterfront progress: I would have expected much more from him.
Again, Miller is limited by a lack of focus, lack of cash and a council that does not always agree with him. That said, he's a smart guy and capable of much more.
The City of Toronto act is courtesy of the provincial government. The idea has been bounced around for decades.
Increased funding from the federal and provincial governments: how so and what? One could easily thank Mel Lastman as well (most recently).
A greater focus on the arts and beautification: again, how so and to what end?
Waterfront progress: I would have expected much more from him.
Again, Miller is limited by a lack of focus, lack of cash and a council that does not always agree with him. That said, he's a smart guy and capable of much more.
Urban Shocker
Doyenne
Miller's Council will soon be raking in $300 million from their land transfer tax cash grab ... and then some. He's moving heaven and earth to create a built legacy on the waterfront going into the campaign for his next term, thanks to TEDCO. There have been a whole series of heavily promoted design competitions for future schemes along the waterfront, resulting in overlapping visions. The city's contribution to the arts is negligible; they bask in the reflected glory of the contributions of other orders of government and private citizens and no claim is made, on our property tax bills, that any of our taxes are earmarked for arts or culture.
syn
Senior Member
And who worked with the Ontario government to get it done? The fact that it's been an idea for so long and he was the first to work with the government to get something done is telling.
Do you honestly see the government implementing a bill like that without the mayor?
Politicians talk about things all the time. He took action.
The gas tax, transit funding...the continuous campaign he's leading to ensure greater funding for all cities.
Lastman can't hold a candle to him.
I don't know if you've noticed, but since Miller arrived there has been greater attention paid to aesthetics. Planters are in better condition and there's better upkeep too. There's still a long way to go, but it's a start.
We also now have a design panel.
As for the arts, whatever Miller has done wrong I don't think he can be faulted for his support of the arts. Nuit Blance wouldn't be here if it wasn't for him, and Luminato probably wouldn't either.
I'd say there has been quite a bit of progress in his 3+ years as mayor. The West Donland's precinct is underway, we have a new park and others in the pipeline. What's important, there has been actual progress, something we haven't seen for a long time.
I think it's important to consider all of this when evaluating him.
I think Miller could improve a lot, but I also think he's done more good than a lot of people give him credit for.
Tewder
Senior Member
Syn, nobody is claiming he is evil or completely worthless. The issue here is whether he is the mayor that Toronto needs right now while so much seemingly unbridled development is happening, while the roads are clogging up, while the public infrastructure is languishing. Aside from the fact that I would disagree with some of your major points - as Urban Shocker indicates, some of the things you cite clearly happened in spite of him - the points you make that are or may be valid are hardly signifiers of greatness, or of the kind of leadership Toronto leads right now.