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Future of Canada's Boundaries

I posted this in another thread but it is more appropriate here. I went ahead and created a map for my secession idea. Ontario is way too big, both geographically and in terms of population. It could theoretically be broken into six provinces, that could each govern their territories more effectively:

Northwestern: pop. 225,000; capital Thunder Bay
Northeastern: pop. 500,000; capital Sudbury
Central: pop. 760,000; capital Barrie
Eastern: pop. 2M; capital Kingston
Southwestern: pop. 3M, capital London
GTA/Horseshoe: pop. 7M capital Toronto

I kept borders around existing county/regional borders. I suppose Ottawa could be a separate National Capital Region, along with Gatineau. But each of these provinces would be bigger than PEI. New names would have to be decided upon.

In the Toronto/GTA Province I included all of Durham, York, Peel, Halton, Hamilton, and Niagara regions (basically the inner Golden horseshoe). Toronto can then be de-amalgamated, and the new provincial government can handle regional issues. The local governments can handle everything else. This would also dissolve the county/regional governments, since they would be redundant. The municipal level should be as local as possible, in order to build strong neighborhoods and communities.

jhyWqCB.png



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Interesting idea RyanM12. Personally though, I think the GTHA needs to stay a part of Ontario, not become it's own separate Province. I personally prefer the idea of creating a Metro Toronto-Hamilton upper tier municipality as opposed to creating a new Province. That would accomplish many of the same goals as secession from Ontario, without as much of the hassle.

By subdividing Ontario too much, we run the risk of splitting it up to the point where it has significantly less influence on the national stage, especially against a province like Quebec. The northern secession idea makes sense because it's truly a distinct group of people within Ontario with dramatically different lifestyles and wants. They don't have very much clout on the national or provincial stage right now anyway, so by having their own Province at least they'd have greater control over their own affairs.

The lack of clout on the national stage is also why I favour a United Maritimes province. By pooling things like healthcare, education, economic management, etc, into a single Provincial entity, it would result in greater efficiency. By and large, they share the same economic engines, and share similar histories and cultures. There's also the option of having them as a single entity on the national stage and at the provincial level, but keep quasi-autonomous 'districts' at the sub-Provincial level, even if it's mainly symbolic (much like how Cape Breton is distinct, yet is still technically within Nova Scotia).

Creating a National Capital District makes sense from a logistical point of view, and it's far from unheard of around the world. It's also one of the only regions in Canada that straddles a provincial border, which adds a layer of complexity to the planning situation. The NCR already has the NCC, which deals with lands on both sides of the river, so theoretically that could be morphed/absorbed into a kind of quasi-municipal, quasi-provincial government.
 
JasonParis said:
Having Gatineau leave Quebec for a capital region is a mega non-starter. In fact, it would only accelerate any efforts to remove Quebec from Canada.
Click to expand...

I think it would accelerate any efforts to have any other areas of Quebec separate from Quebec than have Quebec as a whole separate from Canada. This would be especially true if the creation of the NCD (National Capital District) were to happen in conjunction with the creation of Keewatin from Northern Ontario. I would imagine that people in Northern Quebec would want the same kind of deal. After all, it is a pretty similar situation.

From a separation perspective, sub-dividing Quebec may actually be a good thing, because if there is a yes vote, Canada only loses the part of Quebec that votes yes, not the whole thing.
 
The only ones I would change would be to separate Northern and Southern Ontario, and to split of Quebec just north of Montreal. Bill 101 has severely prevented Montreal from seeing the economic and population growth that other million+ cities in Canada have experienced. If the remaining part of Quebec would want to leave Canada, then fine, but we keep Montreal as well as a strip of land south of the St. Lawrence so that the Maritimes remain connected.

I'd also like it if Detroit joined Ontario, although the logistics would be tough to sort out. Our population would finally be 40 million, and Greater Detroit is still a strong economic engine despite what the city proper has experienced.
 
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middeljohn said:
The only ones I would change would be to separate Northern and Southern Ontario, and to split of Quebec just north of Montreal. Bill 101 has severely prevented Montreal from seeing the economic and population growth that other million+ cities in Canada have experienced. If the remaining part of Quebec would want to leave Canada, then fine, but we keep Montreal as well as a strip of land south of the St. Lawrence so that the Maritimes remain connected.
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Yeah, I've always maintained that if Quebec did decide to separate, that a strip of land south of the St. Lawrence would need to remain part of Canada in order to keep a connection with the Maritimes. Either that or make offers for all of or northern parts of Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine, haha.

middeljohn said:
I'd also like it if Detroit joined Ontario, although the logistics would be tough to sort out. Our population would finally be 40 million, and Greater Detroit is still a strong economic engine despite what the city proper has experienced.
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That's a very interesting idea. It would be a huge money pit, but I think that a Canadian municipal model would do wonders for Detroit. If Detroit did manage to turn it around as part of Canada, it could be a pretty significant economic engine, as you pointed out. The logistics of having an international border along 8 Mile Road though would be very tough to manage, and I doubt that the surrounding municipalities would want to become Canadian.
 
gweed123 said:
Yeah, I've always maintained that if Quebec did decide to separate, that a strip of land south of the St. Lawrence would need to remain part of Canada in order to keep a connection with the Maritimes. Either that or make offers for all of or northern parts of Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine, haha.
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I doubt that retaining a strip of land would be necessary. I would imagine that in the case of Quebec separation, I would imagine a number of economic, defence, and trade agreements would be hammered out that would allow the free movement of people and goods through Quebec Nothing would stop Quebec from applying tolls on Autoroutes 20, 30, and 40 given that they are provincial assets to begin with. The status of the St. Lawrence canal would be a completely different story.

Also in the case of Quebec separation, nothing would stop the island of Montreal and the city of Gatineau from holding their own refferenda to rejoin Canada.

That's a very interesting idea. It would be a huge money pit, but I think that a Canadian municipal model would do wonders for Detroit. If Detroit did manage to turn it around as part of Canada, it could be a pretty significant economic engine, as you pointed out. The logistics of having an international border along 8 Mile Road though would be very tough to manage, and I doubt that the surrounding municipalities would want to become Canadian.
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Detroit is solidly American, I can't see it becoming Canadian unless the US completely falls apart.
 
gweed123 said:
Yeah, I've always maintained that if Quebec did decide to separate, that a strip of land south of the St. Lawrence would need to remain part of Canada in order to keep a connection with the Maritimes. Either that or make offers for all of or northern parts of Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine, haha.
Click to expand...

I was wondering if there was an "english" corridor connecting Ontario to the Maritimes that would stay with Canada. This map suggests no.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Quebec_langues.png

Next I looked at the 2008 election results to see which areas did not vote Bloc - to get an idea of which areas are pro Canada.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Canada_Fed_election_2008_Ridings.svg

Also, the 2012 Provincial Election to see which areas do not vote PQ.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Quebec_election_2012.svg

The federal one suggests that Gatineau, Montreal and West, and near Quebec City may stay with Canada. The Provincial results show that a continuous strip of land from Gatineau, Montreal, along the US border to New Brunswick may be possible.

If Quebec every decides to separate, then Canada would have a responsibility to these citizens to see if they want to stay in Canada.

The seaway is another thing that would require use by Canada, whether the border is the St. Lawrence of south of it.
 
At most i could see a division of Southern Ontario with Northern Ontario (lots of geography up there but not a lot of difference in lifestyle)… and separating Barrie from Toronto, really??

As for Quebec, i'd take Turks and Caicos any day (no offence to Quebecers intended). Montreal and the south shore would probably want to remain with Canada though right? Quebecers in those areas could stay or move as per their heartstrings.
 
… and I hope they could come up with a new name for the new province, rather than resorting to Northern/Southern Ontario. This isn't the Dakotas!
 
WislaHD said:
I like Keewatin for the Northern chunk and keeping Ontario for the Southern bit.
Click to expand...

That's what I had on my map too. It has a historical reference (District of Keewatin comprised much of Northern Ontario and Manitoba before it was reorganized into Ontario and Manitoba's present day borders), and would give the citizens a unique identity, instead of just "the other Ontario".
 
With the talk of Quebec separation in the news again, I decided to make a map of what I think Canada should look like in the event of such a thing:

Quebec%20Separation%20Provincial%20Distribution.jpg


The biggest change is, naturally, east of Ottawa. Ontario east of Ottawa and western Quebec (basically Montreal and the surrounding area and a strip of land heading eastward) would become a Province called Champlain. I chose this name because it's bilingual, and reflects the history of the area. That thin strip extends to parallel with the New Hampshire-Maine border.

East of there is Acadia, with is comprised of the same thin strip (primarily for access), as well as the southeastern part of Quebec, and northern New Brunswick, which is primarily french, and is where the majority of Acadians live. I chose this name because of the long history of those peoples in that area. I also chose it because there is a sizeable Acadian population in the Gaspé region, which in this map is still part of Quebec, but if given the chance to join a Province who's name they closely identify with, they may subsequently choose to remain part of Canada. The northern part of Maine is also substantially Acadians, so there's the potential there for annexation (slim chance, but still a chance none the less).

Making northern New Brunswick part of Acadia also plays into creating a United Maritimes. Right now, one of the biggest obstacles would be the french speaking population in northern NB, who would feel 'diluted' if part of a larger United Maritimes. However, with them having their own Province, that concern is alleviated.
 
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