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Exodus to the Burbs

Though the curious thing is, a lot of those so-labelled "enlightened art snobs" aren't necessarily that inherently hostile to the suburbs (a lot of them grew up there, after all: "it used to be their playground"). In fact, I'd argue that if you "assigned" them to suburban turf (esp. "Spacing urbanists" along the lines of Blackett/Micallef/Keenan), they could probably run rings around *you* in comprehending--and not unsympathetically, at that--the whys and wherefores of said turf, its history and its stories, both ancient and recent. They're so "enlightened", in fact, that they might well wind up enlightening you: awakening you to something deeper, richer in your midst.

Unfortunately, the problem is that the likes of Nads Gone Bad, spider, etc would probably feel more resentful and sneered-at, anyway, and take to this "applied enlightenment" within their own backyard like Fred Flintstone being dragged to the opera. So ultimately, the argument's less about I'm-all-right-Jack suburbanism, than I'm-all-right-Jack philistinism. They're the natives throwing rocks at the anthropologists.
 
adma said:
Though the curious thing is, a lot of those so-labelled "enlightened art snobs" aren't necessarily that inherently hostile to the suburbs (a lot of them grew up there, after all: "it used to be their playground"). In fact, I'd argue that if you "assigned" them to suburban turf (esp. "Spacing urbanists" along the lines of Blackett/Micallef/Keenan), they could probably run rings around *you* in comprehending--and not unsympathetically, at that--the whys and wherefores of said turf, its history and its stories, both ancient and recent. They're so "enlightened", in fact, that they might well wind up enlightening you: awakening you to something deeper, richer in your midst.

Unfortunately, the problem is that the likes of Nads Gone Bad, spider, etc would probably feel more resentful and sneered-at, anyway, and take to this "applied enlightenment" within their own backyard like Fred Flintstone being dragged to the opera. So ultimately, the argument's less about I'm-all-right-Jack suburbanism, than I'm-all-right-Jack philistinism. They're the natives throwing rocks at the anthropologists.
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I'm going to say something that will surprise you. I respect your passion for the city. You are extremely intelligent and very knowledgeable (far greater than I), though I think you try too hard to outdo others with your excessive articulation. People know you're smart. You don't need to write so eloquently to prove that and be respected.

Your attitude and constant bashing of others that don't agree with you on an array of topics weakens your points and makes you look like a petty child. You're not very mature for your age. I know exactly where your anger comes from, but you need to stop taking it out on other people. Lose the jaded personality and you might actually be able to enjoy life more. You'll have much less enemies. What's the point of being so cynical? Nothing good comes from that state of mind. I know from my own experience. You should spend some time with some rubes for a change and see that they're not all bad people. After all, you eat the vegetables they harvest. You might even learn how to play the song from Deliverance, while spitting into a bucket. Don't tell me that wouldn't be a hoot.
 
EMP1729 said:
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jul/25/opinion/la-oe-rodriguez-whitecities-20110725

This article in the LA times is interesting - the opposite seems to be happening in the US. Suburbanites are flocking to the big city.

Some of you may not like the implications outlined in the article, though. If no one wants to read the article: suburbanites are bringing their suburban values with them, and developers are catering to those values....
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No this is wrong ! See the link I linked in my original post ... downtown Toronto has been growing astonishingly fast, some American cities are experiencing this too, but to a much lesser extent.

But as the link indicated, it's the 30-50 range that's leaving for the suburbs not the overall population.
 
Nads Gone Bads said:
You should spend some time with some rubes for a change and see that they're not all bad people. After all, you eat the vegetables they harvest. You might even learn how to play the song from Deliverance, while spitting into a bucket. Don't tell me that wouldn't be a hoot.
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Suburbanites grow vegetables for mass market? Sorry, but those who farm are in an entirely different category than the suburbs. The countryside produces, the city consumes. The suburbs are those who want the openness of the countryside, but who also want to consume like the city.
 
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jje1000 said:
Suburbanites grow vegetables for mass market? Sorry, but those who farm are in an entirely different category than the suburbs. The countryside produces, the city consumes. The suburbs are those who want the openness of the countryside, but who also want to consume like the city.
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I said rubes (red necks, hicks, chawbacons) not suburbanites.
 
This is simple. If you want to move to the suburbs fine. My parents did. Don't bitch about the commute, don't bitch about GO, come in for other stuff besides sports and don't influnce city elections. There were people in Ajax and Milton with Ford signs.
 
jje1000 said:
Adma seems to dislike the suburbs, not the farmers.
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Actually not--and as per my earlier point, neither do a lot of those more thoughtful "urban snobs" among us. In fact (and as per my point), they may "love" (or offer clues to loving) the suburbs even more than said suburbanites are capable of, or inclined to doing. So it's not about the raw suburbs; it's about the ham-handed, lousy-lay obtuse complacency of the suburbanites. They're *their* own worst enemies--not the people who created and inhabited Don Mills in the 50s and 60s, but the people who pollute it with teardowns in the 00s and 10s.

You might as well say that I "hate the city" whenever I invoke this

stuff-white-people-like-book-cover.jpg
 
My take on this whole "exodus" is that, at least given the examples provided, some people would just rather be a big fish in a small pond. Relatively speaking, you are much more important as a member of the community in a smaller town than you are in a big bustling city. For example, the owner of "that coffee shop on Main St." in a small town is a much more notable figure, relatively speaking, than the owner of "that one coffee shop that's just like the three other coffee shops in this area."

Think of it like voting in a municipal election: a vote for mayor in a smaller community is worth more (as a percentage of total votes cast) than a vote for mayor in a large city - even if the mayor of the smaller town is not, in the grand scheme of things, as important or powerful as the mayor of the large city.

Basically, when it comes to the criticisms of community life in the city, I think these people are concerned more with their status within the community than in community life in general. The larger houses and big yards, for example, are status symbols and nothing more.
 
Nads Gone Bads said:
I agree, the outer burbs (905) are cookie cutter wastelands. The neighbourhoods are developed with no thought. But at the same time, some people love living out there so who is anyone to tell them that they're crazy for living where they choose? Whatever works for them is best for them. They might think living downtown, close to hookers and drug dealers is crazy. I'm not saying downtown is a bad place to live, it's just not for everybody.
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I think the real problem is zoning overload, especially in the 905 and in parts of the 416. Zoning prevents corner shops from opening up, or doctors and dentists opening offices in residential areas. Zoning also tends to prevent multi-use buildings from appearing. Zoning tells developers, you must have so much parking (even if not used), you cannot (legally) rent out a basement apartment, and so on. Zoning also prevents one altering one's own building, no Kensington Market can appear in Brampton or Mississauga for example.
 
taal said:
No this is wrong ! See the link I linked in my original post ... downtown Toronto has been growing astonishingly fast, some American cities are experiencing this too, but to a much lesser extent.

But as the link indicated, it's the 30-50 range that's leaving for the suburbs not the overall population.
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The article in the LA Times is highlighting that white suburbanites are moving back to the inner city, perhaps too many non-whites in the suburbs now ;) I agree with you that cities are growing.

Because of the ensuing firefight between "urban" and "suburban" living camps, I wanted to point out that the trend is that white middle-class suburban kids are moving back to the city, and they are bringing their love for corporate manufactured culture with them. In Toronto, CityPlace seems urban, but I find the place to be a manufactured suburban* style planned subdivision. When I say suburban, I don't mean sprawl, low-density car-centric planning. I mean chain restaurants and big box stores. Safe, middle of the road establishments. Downtowns are being transformed into "suburbs with pizazz"
 
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