Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[BurlOak]

Spend $190 million on refurbishing the SRT to handle Mark II cars, and only interrupt service for 8 months?

The Ford-McGuinty compromise had acceptance except for cost. It showed that technology choice was not a major issue. Grade- separation was.

SkyTrain could easily happened if Stints had pushed it.

 

[canarob]

SRT2/M2 landing on the edge of Malvern would be great, but who knows what that would cost? Whatever the chosen terminus, there needs to be land for a fairly substantial bus terminal. In addition to the eastern TTC bus routes, I could see several YRT routes connecting here.

 

[rbt]

SRT2/M2 landing on the edge of Malvern would be great, but who knows what that would cost? Whatever the chosen terminus, there needs to be land for a fairly substantial bus terminal. In addition to the eastern TTC bus routes, I could see several YRT routes connecting here.

Why would any YRT routes drive 20 minutes south of Steeles when they could instead head to a GO station with trains running every 15 minutes with a much higher operating speed? YRT will reorganize around greatly improved GO service, assuming greatly improve GO service is built.

 

[Hopkins123]

My thoughts on the alignment:

Midland: This stip is almost all low density residential and commercial. There's not much in the area to attract usage. Ridership on this segment will likely be low due it proximity to SmartTrack.

Here's illustration of how a Midland alignment could look like in real life:



IMO, it'd be worth building as one shot all the way to Morningside Heights if some funds could be diverted away from SmartTrack, which would be essentially useless through Scarborough if this alignment were chosen.

Bellamy/Markham: Almost all low density industrial and industrial/commercial. Costs would be significantly higher than the current McCowan alignment. However, it is far enough east that it might have the usage to justify a subway (probabl

There are a couple valid reasons to extend to Markham Rd. 1.) the direct connection to Eglinton GO and 2.) serving the greater Cedarbrae area which is already high-density and redevelopable. Also depending on how they want to connect to Scarborough Centre; the line could also swing by Centennial College en route before curving westward.

 

[canarob]

Why would any YRT routes drive 20 minutes south of Steeles when they could instead head to a GO station with trains running every 15 minutes with a much higher operating speed? YRT will reorganize around greatly improved GO service, assuming greatly improve GO service is built.

Why not connect to both? If you live in East Markham, South of the 407, it would still be faster to get to McCowan/Markham and Sheppard than GO, especially when you would only have to wait 3 minutes instead of 15. If nothing else, the routes contracted to the TTC for Kennedy, McCowan and Markham would logically end at the subway (and would all connect to GO as well). Plus depending on how fare integration works, it will likely still be cheaper to take a connecting bus to the subway than to GO. Will GO run 15-minute service at night on the weekend, etc.? I realize that SmartTrack may change these options dramatically, but it's still a big question mark.

 

[rbt]

Will GO run 15-minute service at night on the weekend, etc.?

I hope so for the inner portions of the routes but ultimately it's up to what the riders decide. If people ride it then it will operation. If they don't ride it then some politician will eventually cut service regardless of what Wynne initially funds.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I don't think that this study with all of it's options means that it is "increasingly troubled".

It is their duty to look at all of the options. Tory and Council would be criticized pretty heavily if they didn't and just went ahead.

Short of some insane escalation in price, I think this means that the subway is a done deal. Even Munro admits a reversion to LRT is unlikely.

I don't think any option that involves reconfiguration of Kennedy (ie. using the SRT corridor) will make it through. It will eat up too much of the budget.

The reason they've expanded the study area is because the McCowan alignment is likely to have too little usage to be viable. I think that's reasonable grounds to say the project is increasingly troubled.

 

[innsertnamehere]

NO. They specifically countered that. They said that they are looking further east now to see if they could attract even more, not because the old alignment is now screwed.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Isn't that what I just said?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

NO. They specifically countered that. They said that they are looking further east now to see if they could attract even more, not because the old alignment is now screwed.

The old alignment isn't screwed. Of course it can still be built. The question is how low can ridership go before Council pulls the plug at one of the upcoming votes to regarding Line 2

 

[wopchop]

The reason they've expanded the study area is because the McCowan alignment is likely to have too little usage to be viable. I think that's reasonable grounds to say the project is increasingly troubled.

No, that's not the reason they've expanded the study area. In fact, there never was a study area to begin with. Just a couple routes cooked up by politicians with no in-depth study at all. The extension MUST got through an EA, with in-depth study, and in the EA, they MUST investigate all potential alignments. So, yes, they will be looking at the originally proposed alignments by the TTC and politicians, but they will also be considering other options. That's simply due diligence. And that is wildly different from what you are claiming.

 

[Electrify]

Perhaps the best argument for this subway extension is that it would link Scarborough Centre to north downtown without requiring a transfer. If they are going to move the line east and miss the growth centre, then it defeats even that benefit!

 

[Hopkins123]

The reason they've expanded the study area is because the McCowan alignment is likely to have too little usage to be viable. I think that's reasonable grounds to say the project is increasingly troubled.

Well according to 2012 TTC ridership statistics, 16 McCowan carries ~10,000 passengers daily and 129 McCowan North carries 14,500 daily. Add to that a percentage of 21 Brimley (% of 9,500) and 131E Nugget (% of 6,300) and it does start to add up in McCowan's favour.

 

[epcjay]

Why would any YRT routes drive 20 minutes south of Steeles when they could instead head to a GO station with trains running every 15 minutes with a much higher operating speed? YRT will reorganize around greatly improved GO service, assuming greatly improve GO service is built.

I still think they will have 1 or 2 routers serving those who want to take the subway. Much like how Viva Green and Leslie Route 90 go to Don Mills station currently

 

[BurlOak]

No, that's not the reason they've expanded the study area. In fact, there never was a study area to begin with. Just a couple routes cooked up by politicians with no in-depth study at all. The extension MUST got through an EA, with in-depth study, and in the EA, they MUST investigate all potential alignments. So, yes, they will be looking at the originally proposed alignments by the TTC and politicians, but they will also be considering other options. That's simply due diligence. And that is wildly different from what you are claiming.

I hate this talk about not knowing anything until the EA is done. I am pretty sure that for the 50k already spent, they could have easily figured out the best solution. The EA is just so it appears the public was consulted. The EA will skew the criteria and scoring and ridership to make sure the politically chosen solution wins. The prices will also feed some dollars to the consultants, and also delay the spending of the big construction dollars - which is another big goal.