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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

This is a bit disturbing - from GraphicMatt @ Metro:

Everything Ford has said on the matter indicates that he’s pulling hard for the strategy on the right side of the chart. He’s said repeatedly that he will only accept a property tax increase of 0.25 per cent. When pressed, he’s admitted that the property tax increase needed for his plan is actually a full one per cent — it’s just that he wants to phase that one per cent in at a rate of 0.25 per cent per year.

To make it work, the province needs to cough up nearly $2.5 billion, an amount that, after inflation, is equal to the original $1.8 billion pledged by the province for the LRT project. At the same time, the federal government needs to come to the table with another $420 million. The remaining funding would be funded by a mix of development charges — to the tune of $100 million, or about 66 per cent of what the city currently takes in via development charges in a single year — and, yes, taxes.
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http://metronews.ca/voices/ford-for...ords-plan-for-funding-the-scarborough-subway/

So this proposal will suck up 66% of development charges across the entire city - I do have to ask, are the developments happening in the said corridor of the city? Sounds like they need to work on an acceptable financial plan for the project instead of pulling money from every pot without considering the impact to the rest of the city.

AoD
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Sounds like they need to work on an acceptable financial plan for the project instead of pulling money from every pot without considering the impact to the rest of the city.
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Why? The rest of the city already has its subways! Now it's Scarborough's turn! It's only fair!
 
Tulse:

The merit of a BD extension to STC (which I support) is a very different matter from the current pie in the sky, financing by wishful thinking of the project (which I decry) - if one need that many ifs, ands or buts to pay for the line, they need come out and say truthfully exactly how to pay for it, and what impact pulling money from different pots will have on other parts of the city. Not knowing all the details (e.g. use of development charges) - this is what the city manager has to say:

Matt Elliott ‏@GraphicMatt 2m
Pennachetti says tax hit per household will be $45 per year without federal funding and just $1.4B from province.
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AoD
 
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AlvinofDiaspar said:
The merit of a BD extension to STC (which I support) is a very different matter from the current pie in the sky, financing by wishful thinking of the project (which I decry) - if one need that many ifs, ands or buts to pay for the line, they need come out and say truthfully exactly how to pay for it.
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Respect the suburbs! Demand your due from the downtown latte-sipping elites! Subways! Subways! Subways!

Do you honestly think that folks who are promoting this actually worry about such minor annoyances as how this will be funded? And do you think their constituents care either? Sadly, civic governance has been reduced to sloganeering about imagined slights and grievances, rather than any sort of competent management.
 
John Lorinc ‏@JohnLorinc 6m
#topoli Adam Vaughan map showing Scar subway misses priority nds and Centennial College.

ipvdRZC.jpg
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So telling about the state of the transit debate when it takes a downtown "latte-sipping" councillor 20 kilometers from his ward to look out for low income communities and student commuters in Scarborough.
 

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M II A II R II K said:
‘Wrong on so many levels’: Ford ally blasts Scarborough subway funding plan

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/0...-ally-blasts-scarborough-subway-funding-plan/


Ford ally Denzil Minnan-Wong on Tuesday blasted a preliminary funding plan to build a Scarborough subway, saying costs for the project would likely be at least $1-billion higher than forecast. “To go forward with this is wrong on so many different levels,” Councillor Minnan-Wong said. “Fiscal conservatives will have to turn in their membership cards.”

.....
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Since when was Ford a fiscal conservative?
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
So this proposal will suck up 66% of development charges across the entire city - I do have to ask, are the developments happening in the said corridor of the city? Sounds like they need to work on an acceptable financial plan for the project instead of pulling money from every pot without considering the impact to the rest of the city.

AoD
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Not really, actually. Legally, the city cannot use DCs to fund the subway unless the province lets them (IIRC, such a deal is in place for the Spadina extension but it's not citywide; only on developments near the line...I forget the details). So, DCs aren't on the table just yet and if they are, it will be a new charge, which I'm sure thrills the development industry to no end.

He was just trying to give a sense of how big a number we're talking about: that this "plan" requires an amount equivalent to 2/3 of the city's DC haul, which is a lot.

It's pretty clear that this "plan" is extremely scattershot. The $1.8B is an estimate, the mayor's proposed tax is too low for his portion, the feds don't seem to care (hey, unlike everyone else, they're not campaigning). Really, this only strikes me as about 20% more cogent than "The private sector will build it for us!"

As others have said, I think it undermines the proposed Metrolinx plan for revenue tools (not to mention their project prioritization framework). I'm not sure what would be worse at this point. Frankly, if I lived in Scarborough I would just want something built already.
 
Thanks for the clarification. At this point maybe we should go back to the Eglinton-SRT combo - or at least make sure Kennedy is designed in a way that would not prevent future grade separation.

AoD
 
I'm told that at least 3 formerly guaranteed Yes vote councillors are buckling. Michael Thompson is now leaning towards "No". This looked like a done deal for the subway, but I'm not so sure anymore.
 
What a horrible and pathetic situation.

The LRT is the best option here, but busing people for 4 years is a terrible idea and, in my opinion, an unacceptable compromise.

Taking construction at such a slow pace is clearly discrimination against Scarborough transit users. We wouldn't entirely close the Gardiner for 4 years for anything. Throwing people into slow unreliable buses for that long is cruel and encourages people to drive instead.
 
RC8 said:
What a horrible and pathetic situation.

The LRT is the best option here, but busing people for 4 years is a terrible idea and, in my opinion, an unacceptable compromise.
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Metrolinx has been quoting 3 years for a while and have expectations that the contractor can shrink it down from there. That is, 3 years is the worst case.

It is a long time on buses but councillors quoting 4 years are either mistaken or purposefully spreading misinformation.
 
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