Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[denfromoakvillemilton]

No one had any issue with Malvern/ Eglinton East, I don't even know why it was cut the first time. The problem is the opinon is split, even in Scarborough over this thing and they ahve hurt the cause by pushing the McCowan alignment. If you live in highland creek or port union, this has no effect on your life while Eglinton East will for sure. Vice versa with central scarborough and the subway.

 

[micheal_can]

Smartrack is a good idea.
Transit city is a good idea.
Crosstown LRT is a good idea.
Extending the Bloor line is a good idea.

When the ----- are they ever going to follow through with anything?

Again, if the city would build the plan that they agreed on and quit trying to politicize every - single - thing Toronto would actually have a great system.

 

[OneCity]

No one had any issue with Malvern/ Eglinton East, I don't even know why it was cut the first time. The problem is the opinon is split, even in Scarborough over this thing and they ahve hurt the cause by pushing the McCowan alignment. If you live in highland creek or port union, this has no effect on your life while Eglinton East will for sure. Vice versa with central scarborough and the subway.

All Politics.

Ive always said had the Province funded the SMLRT the package would have seen enough support. But there was too many concerns from residents here over the SELRT and SLRT and when they left out a huge area which truly needs improved transit it was a Political gold served up. McGuinty blew the slim hope Transit City had when they took SMLRT off the "next wave".

The SMLRT was likely cut for that very reason it was highly supported. It was the one line the majority of residents agreed upon & the Province could use it as voting lure in future decades. But the priority to them was to get the possible subway lines built as LRT as quick as possible. Sheppard shouldn't have been the priority but this was a one time opportunity for the Province with Miller in power to build the extensions which subways were preferred first. Once It was called out during in the Ford election the Province had little choice but to show support for the people of Scarborough to not take any blame for not listening and save votes.

Here we are. SMLRT is finding its way on the radar and a discussion for years to come, the Sheppard line is all but dead and the Subway to SCC is going to be extended as it should have been from the start. That was the last gasp to prevent extending Sheppard subway in the future and it may not be built for a few decades and were sure to see it drawn out in another fight but its more than likely back for good

 

[Amare]

John Tory's latest argument as to why the Scarborough extension makes sense speaking with CP24: "Scarborough Town Centre subway station will be the 3rd busiest stop in the system and this to me isnt a subway that doesn't have enough ridership".

Yes mayor, that's what happens when you eliminate 4 out of the 6 stops that currently exist and funnel all exiting bus routes and riders to that station. The exact same thing would happen if you closed Islington on the Bloor-Danforth line; ridership numbers would increase at Kipling. This is exactly why politicians shouldnt be touching transit in the first place.

 

[Rainforest]

No one had any issue with Malvern/ Eglinton East, I don't even know why it was cut the first time.

Entirely due to the shortage of funds. The provincial government promised to pay $11.8 billion for 7 light rail lines, under condition that the federal government will add half of that ($5.9 billion). The federal government gave very little, while the projected cost of the said light rail lines escalated as the design advanced. So, they decided to postpone 4 lines, including Eglinton East (called Scarborough-Malvern at that time).

I never heard of any local opposition to this line.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I actually think the liberal politicians in scarborough are secretly lrt supporters but have decided to back the subway for fear of losing their jobs from voters. I wonder though if they are listening to a very vocal minority

It's likely. There are a ton of people in Scarborough that believe this proposal is madness. If you believe the polling, it's even a plurality of people in Scarborough that do not want this subway extension built. Either way, there's a substantial part of Scarborough that doesn't want this extension.

What's basically guaranteed at this point is that when (if) this extension ever opens, there's going to be a lot of people in Scarborough, who have no better or even worse access to transit than they do today. People will be futrated that the thing travels 6 km without a single stop, and they'll be calls to retrofit in stops, probably costing billions extra. This subway extension doesn't come close to fixing Scarborough's transit issues.

Politicians need to build this thing right the first time, or we'll be paying for it in the future.

 

[OneCity]

Entirely due to the shortage of funds. The provincial government promised to pay $11.8 billion for 7 light rail lines, under condition that the federal government will add half of that ($5.9 billion). The federal government gave very little, while the projected cost of the said light rail lines escalated as the design advanced. So, they decided to postpone 4 lines, including Eglinton East (called Scarborough-Malvern at that time).

I never heard of any local opposition to this line.

Postponed and then they completely removed soon after. No longer postponed. Dead

 

[OneCity]

It's likely. There are a ton of people in Scarborough that believe this proposal is madness. If you believe the polling, it's even a plurality of people in Scarborough that do not want this subway extension built. Either way, there's a substantial part of Scarborough that doesn't want this extension.

What's basically guaranteed at this point is that when (if) this extension ever opens, there's going to be a lot of people in Scarborough, who have no better or even worse access to transit than they do today. People will be futrated that the thing travels 6 km without a single stop, and they'll be calls to retrofit in stops, probably costing billions extra. This subway extension doesn't come close to fixing Scarborough's transit issues.

Politicians need to build this thing right the first time, or we'll be paying for it in the future.

Its a large Borough. You can find people to support a lot of different things. Poll the areas around the lines and you'll get a clear picture. The one stop doesn't have a ton of support but either does the transfer LRT.

We know there are new tricks coming and its going to be interesting to see what gets promised come election time. I can see Scarborough vote coming down to using Sheppard LRT funds to extend the subway to Sheppard or use it for the Eglinton LRT if the Province wont pony up for Tory. Whoever brings the same LRT plan to the table is basically a salmon running thru Highland Creek to spawn.

 

[salsa]

John Tory's latest argument as to why the Scarborough extension makes sense speaking with CP24: "Scarborough Town Centre subway station will be the 3rd busiest stop in the system and this to me isnt a subway that doesn't have enough ridership".

Steve Munro pointed out that almost half of the station usage will be bus to bus transfers. Tory likes to say it's a busy station but it does not translate to high subway ridership. This is just another example of John Tory twisting the facts to fit his narrative.

 

[nfitz]

The PCs just won a by election in Scarborough promising to build a subway extension.

I would bet money that the SSE will happen before anything else with the PCs.

North York and Etobicoke may not care. But the SSE might just move marginal votes in Durham and Markham.

You can bet they've done surveys too to determine what is most politically advantageous. I'll bet money they don't give a fig about the LRT crowd because most of that set won't ever vote PC.

A by-election. I really don't believe much what they promise in by-elections - in the following by-election the PCs went with a candidate who wants to get rid of abortion and who is anti-gay. The party isn't going to do everything that local candidates say/want. My Liberal MP campaigned party on electoral reform - and has since spoken out saying that he disagrees about stopping it - local candidates don't necessary have much strength - or we'd have a railway to Peterborough by now.

 

[nfitz]

Postponed and then they completely removed soon after. No longer postponed. Dead

Not dead. Perhaps you haven't heard about the recent Eglinton East proposal to revive most of it? Please see the city website http://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/contentonly?vgnextoid=78bddff58f3e4510VgnVCM10000071d60f89RCRD which discusses the original 2009 Transit City work, the current work, and current presentations.

 

[OneCity]

Not dead. Perhaps you haven't heard about the recent Eglinton East proposal to revive most of it? Please see the city website http://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/contentonly?vgnextoid=78bddff58f3e4510VgnVCM10000071d60f89RCRD which discusses the original 2009 Transit City work, the current work, and current presentations.

It was off the Provinces "Next wave'. Next wave meaning unfunded projects maybe to be funded in 15-25 years. But it was taken off that list and never returned. It was Toast as far as the Province was concerned during the end of Millers term and the Ford years. It was all about Sheppard and SLRT for McGuinty. We can all draw lines on a map, pay for reports, or whatever the City's flavor of the year might be, but if the lines are not going to be funded in the next 100 years thats all they are.

It was given life under the Tory admin thankfully, but still unfunded for now. I imagine that will change prior to the election or Tory is toast in Scarborough if he is left standing with only a one stop subway.

And I can pretty much guarantee Ford and Brown and likely Wynne will be taking the current Sheppard funds to extend the subway as part of their campaign. And likely care little for the Eglinton East LRT. If no funding shows up for the Eglinton East line, that subway extension to Sheppard will carry the day in Scarborough

John Tory's latest argument as to why the Scarborough extension makes sense speaking with CP24: "Scarborough Town Centre subway station will be the 3rd busiest stop in the system and this to me isnt a subway that doesn't have enough ridership".

Yes mayor, that's what happens when you eliminate 4 out of the 6 stops that currently exist and funnel all exiting bus routes and riders to that station. The exact same thing would happen if you closed Islington on the Bloor-Danforth line; ridership numbers would increase at Kipling. This is exactly why politicians shouldnt be touching transit in the first place.

To be fair even without cutting stops the current SCC RT ridership is much better than most stops in the current network.

 

[kEiThZ]

Ray Cho also promised the sheppard subway, that might not get built. Its not about the LRT crowd (poor salesmen, the lot of them), its about the fiscal situation, its not looking good.

He was my councillor. He's a buffoon. I don't disagree. But he made certain promises and it helped him and the PCs win. You can bet that they will build the SSE if they think there are more votes to be had in it.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but people in Pickering and Markham could care less for an increasingly expensive 1-stop subway that is nowhere near their city.

Note that I said marginal votes. There are plenty of 905 commuters that come through Scarborough Centre. The place is a GO bus hub after all. There will be at least some who'd like a subway there. And in politics, even a few percentage points is worth some thing if it snatches seats from your opponents.

 

[kEiThZ]

No one had any issue with Malvern/ Eglinton East, I don't even know why it was cut the first time.

Actually, the Eglinton East was never slated to be built in the first tranche of LRT projects. And it was the SLRT that got cut. They cut the Malvern Town Centre stop to terminate Sheppard, which puts transit on the edge of Malvern. At that, the LRT has about the same value as the subway since tons of people are getting to the station by bus anyway and its a wash whether they get off early and transfer at Sheppard/Progress or stay on for a longer bus ride to transfer to the subway at Scarborough Centre. Most people like less transfers so the subway might even be more attractive.

I have brought this up before and I'm saying it again. People keep complaining about the subway, but shockingly nobody seems to be offering to simply extend the LRTs further or build more LRT for the same amount of dollars. Offer Scarborough the SELRT and SMLRT and the SELRT. Not in sequence. Offer to build all of it at the same time and to transform transit in Scarborough in a decade. Offer to do it without stop cuts. SLRT to Malvern. SELRT to the zoo. Watch public opinion in Scarborough change overnight to be staunchly (not just a mild approval) in favour of LRT.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

All Politics.

Ive always said had the Province funded the SMLRT the package would have seen enough support. But there was too many concerns from residents here over the SELRT and SLRT and when they left out a huge area which truly needs improved transit it was a Political gold served up. McGuinty blew the slim hope Transit City had when they took SMLRT off the "next wave".

The SMLRT was likely cut for that very reason it was highly supported. It was the one line the majority of residents agreed upon & the Province could use it as voting lure in future decades. But the priority to them was to get the possible subway lines built as LRT as quick as possible. Sheppard shouldn't have been the priority but this was a one time opportunity for the Province with Miller in power to build the extensions which subways were preferred first. Once It was called out during in the Ford election the Province had little choice but to show support for the people of Scarborough to not take any blame for not listening and save votes.

Here we are. SMLRT is finding its way on the radar and a discussion for years to come, the Sheppard line is all but dead and the Subway to SCC is going to be extended as it should have been from the start. That was the last gasp to prevent extending Sheppard subway in the future and it may not be built for a few decades and were sure to see it drawn out in another fight but its more than likely back for good

Entirely due to the shortage of funds. The provincial government promised to pay $11.8 billion for 7 light rail lines, under condition that the federal government will add half of that ($5.9 billion). The federal government gave very little, while the projected cost of the said light rail lines escalated as the design advanced. So, they decided to postpone 4 lines, including Eglinton East (called Scarborough-Malvern at that time).

I never heard of any local opposition to this line.

I believe this, and its just another example of how things are done in toronto. A proper city would have offered both the subway and the East LRT at as a peacemaking deal, but this is Toronto. They should bite the bullet at this point and built the subway and Eglinton east like promised.

He was my councillor. He's a buffoon. I don't disagree. But he made certain promises and it helped him and the PCs win. You can bet that they will build the SSE if they think there are more votes to be had in it.



Note that I said marginal votes. There are plenty of 905 commuters that come through Scarborough Centre. The place is a GO bus hub after all. There will be at least some who'd like a subway there. And in politics, even a few percentage points is worth some thing if it snatches seats from your opponents.

Fair enough.

Actually, the Eglinton East was never slated to be built in the first tranche of LRT projects. And it was the SLRT that got cut. They cut the Malvern Town Centre stop to terminate Sheppard, which puts transit on the edge of Malvern. At that, the LRT has about the same value as the subway since tons of people are getting to the station by bus anyway and its a wash whether they get off early and transfer at Sheppard/Progress or stay on for a longer bus ride to transfer to the subway at Scarborough Centre. Most people like less transfers so the subway might even be more attractive.

I have brought this up before and I'm saying it again. People keep complaining about the subway, but shockingly nobody seems to be offering to simply extend the LRTs further or build more LRT for the same amount of dollars. Offer Scarborough the SELRT and SMLRT and the SELRT. Not in sequence. Offer to build all of it at the same time and to transform transit in Scarborough in a decade. Offer to do it without stop cuts. SLRT to Malvern. SELRT to the zoo. Watch public opinion in Scarborough change overnight to be staunchly (not just a mild approval) in favour of LRT.

I agree and of course. They should build all of it at this point, no reason not to. Since they can't seem to explain what makes LRT better, build the subways both Scarborough and Sheppard East, and the Eglinton East LRT. Just get it all done, and let's move on. It's been 11 years since transit city already.