TheTigerMaster
Superstar
This funding is pitiful. The fact that you think this is okay demonstrates how dire the funding situation has been, with regards to the federal government.
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This funding is pitiful. The fact that you think this is okay demonstrates how dire the funding situation has been, with regards to the federal government.
Hopkins123
Senior Member
1. Bring back the Murray alignment (rebuild Kennedy Stn, modify the existing Lawrence East and Ellesmere Stns, new tunnel underneath the east-west elevate guideway of the SRT, shallow tunnel underneath the existing STC terminal site).
2. Best proposal for all of STC and Scarborough is to follow that alignment past STC and towards Malvern/Morningside Hts
3. I think all three parties, the Feds and City Hall would embrace this plan vs. the $4.5 billion one-stop extension up McCowan Road. $4.5 billion could probably afford us the whole alignment to Malvern Town Centre, serving more of Scarborough and only leaving one stop to Morningside/Finch left to be constructed.
4. Nothing, at the rate we're going. 30 years will go by and subway costs will escalate to $4 billion per kilometre. Yikes!
BurlOak
Senior Member
Maybe its not enough - but $400M+ per year for Toronto is not bad, considering that cumulatively every federal government combined likely was less than $100M. Assuming Toronto is 10% of Canada's population, that's $4B for municipal infrastructure per year. And also consider the constitution that this is a provincial responsibility.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Over the past 10 years, they've committed to providing $4 Billion. Key word is committed. They didn't actually deliver $4 Billion over 10 years.
In the last 10 years, all the federal government has actually delivered is $700 Million for TYSSE, $300 Million for SELRT and only some of the $800 Million committed by Trudeau last year. (I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt, and assuming that the SRLRT funds would have materialized if not for Metrolinx's delays).
OneCity
Senior Member
1.Kill Smart track. Take approx. 1 to 1.7 billion of the 3.7 billion total and add 2-3 stops to the SSE and fund the Eglinton Crosstown.
Seriously do need Smarttrack at this point? GO RER is going ahead and you have to question the harm its done to other projects and the costs here.
2.Build the one stop to stop wasting further time and money and plan out from here
3.Expedite a cheaper subway alternative to add more stops if this can be done quickly and at a reasonable cost savings. (not sure it can)
4.Do nothing. This is a brutal outcome, I highly doubt it would happen either, but we really need to pause, listens to each other Municipally in a more considerate manner with a long term vision in mind and less fear of a budget the regular person cant and shouldn't have to understand. Send a request up to the Province thru to the Feds prioritizing whats required immediately, in 25 years, 50 years and 100 years. And get a firm commitment.
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OneCity
Senior Member
http://www.torontosun.com/2017/03/04/time-to-build-the-scarborough-subway
http://www.torontosun.com/2017/03/04/community-group-wants-a-voice-in-scarborough-subway-debate
http://www.torontosun.com/2017/03/04/the-politics-of-transportation
Always fascinated when the Sun opportunistically chimes in on transit topics. Editorials aare solid hints at where their candidates will stand. IMO and surprising to some here im sure the Cons will be going in full on the subway front. DRL and Sheppard included
"We’re not pleased that the cost of the Scarborough subway has now escalated to $3.35 billion from an original estimate of $2 billion.
And that — let’s not kid the troops — it will probably go even higher by the time shovels actually go in the ground, assuming they ever do.
But cost increases would also have happened if council had opted for the LRT option."
I fully agree with this point and I have no faith in the debating will get us anywhere or keep the costs down by the time a new plan rolls out. I can only hope Smartrack gets cancelled and the funds go toward improving the subway and the Eglinton East LRT. Unfortunately the guy who will campaign on killing Smarttrack may not be interested in the Eglinton East
http://www.torontosun.com/2017/03/04/community-group-wants-a-voice-in-scarborough-subway-debate
http://www.torontosun.com/2017/03/04/the-politics-of-transportation
Always fascinated when the Sun opportunistically chimes in on transit topics. Editorials aare solid hints at where their candidates will stand. IMO and surprising to some here im sure the Cons will be going in full on the subway front. DRL and Sheppard included
"We’re not pleased that the cost of the Scarborough subway has now escalated to $3.35 billion from an original estimate of $2 billion.
And that — let’s not kid the troops — it will probably go even higher by the time shovels actually go in the ground, assuming they ever do.
But cost increases would also have happened if council had opted for the LRT option."
I fully agree with this point and I have no faith in the debating will get us anywhere or keep the costs down by the time a new plan rolls out. I can only hope Smartrack gets cancelled and the funds go toward improving the subway and the Eglinton East LRT. Unfortunately the guy who will campaign on killing Smarttrack may not be interested in the Eglinton East
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Rainforest
Senior Member
IMHO:
#1: SmartSpur, combined with a surface LRT along McCowan.
#2: SSE with stations at Lawrence and Sheppard.
#3: SSE with stations at Lawrence and Sheppard.
#4: SSE with 1 stop at STC.
Unfortunately, the ship has sailed for SmartSpur. It would require much more extensive and costly upgrades for the whole rail corridor all the way to Union and beyond. Surely, such upgrades would bring massive benefits, not limited to improving transit in Scarborough.
But we have chosen a scaled-down version, and noone will have the guts to revisit this issue soon enough to make a difference for the STC connection.
TOareaFan
Superstar
John Tory is not even sure what plan he is shilling for anymore 
https://twitter.com/_keerthanak/status/838476021280157696
https://twitter.com/_keerthanak/status/838476021280157696
OneCity
Senior Member
John Tory is not even sure what plan he is shilling for anymore
https://twitter.com/_keerthanak/status/838476021280157696
I would have to expect him to have his act together at some point and paint a clearer picture on what is getting funded and built soon or he'll be dropped faster than the Ellesmere station come election time. He no longer has Smarttrack in his pocket and if anything that will be used against him by both sides for its flop.
No way he shows up to the election with a 1 stop subway, completely gutted Smarttrack, and an unfunded Eglinton East LRT. Say goodnight Scarborough for sure as Doug will eat most of those votes. Fully funding Eglinton is massive for him. And you can see Brad has quickly changed his tone with his tweet yesterday. Tory seems to be in desperate negotiation & Eglinton funding is likely in the works
https://twitter.com/BradDuguid/status/838157266373206016
"Eglinton LRT extension to UTSC an exciting project. Not yet in funding plan. But priority ask of City under Fed-Prov infrastructure program"
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kEiThZ
Superstar
Show me a single LRT being built in the 416 at the moment that the City has made even a marginal contribution towards. Meanwhile Ottawa paid for a third of theirs and guaranteed to cover all cost overruns. How long do you think other cities in the province will tolerate this arrangement, when Toronto has the lowest mill rates in the province?
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kEiThZ
Superstar
Disagree. There is simply no need for the federal government to get involved in building transit. We do that in Canada so that the federal government can stay relevant. But it's moronic. The feds should stick to projects and issues with national or at least regional (multi-provincial) impact. And leave enough tax and revenue room for the provinces and cities to build and fund the infrastructure they need.
For example, how much roadbuilding does the federal government do? I guarantee you that the 10 cent excise tax gets the federal government far more than they spend on the Trans-Canada and any other roads in their portfolio. So they use this money for transit. And because it's national money it has to get spread around without any due regard to need, urgency or impact. Now, imagine if there was no 10 cent and excise tax and every province could charge whatever they wanted instead and use that to fund transit or road maintenance as they need.
dowlingm
Senior Member
Ottawa's is substantially underground and Toronto paid for 1/3 plus plus of TYSSE. So there's that.
OneCity
Senior Member
http://catchthetrout.ca/publication/national-transit-strategy-policy/wppa_open/
Good report on how insufficient and unpredictable our Federal transit funding has been.
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kEiThZ
Superstar
Yet, surprisingly, most of that under a conservative government was more generous that what was paid out under Liberal governments prior. And unless Canada adopts much higher tax rates, I don't expect substantially more federal support. The feds are facing financial pressures on several fronts. And relying on them for transit funding is a recipe for delay and inaction.
Climate change, US pressure for all NATO allies to increase defence spending, and now permanent rotation of military units through Europe, new social spending and ever increasing demand for health spending, all have to compete with transit. This is why it is best for provinces and cities to plan to build infrastructure without the feds and then they can use federal funds to accelerate plans.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Ottawa's LRT is 12.5 km. Only 2.5 km of that is underground. And there's a short 1km tunnel planned for Phase 2, which is also funded 1/3rd by the city.
Ottawa would kill for the deal that Toronto got. And it's especially egregious given that the previous premier was from Ottawa. And the country is celebrating its 150th anniversary, which in most countries would result in a good bit of investment in the capital city.
Surprises me that Ottawa kept electing the Liberals. Hudak not committing to Phase 2 support cost him seats in Ottawa. I expect Brown won't make the same mistake and the PCs will make headway there.