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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

Solid Snake said:
Connecting to Sheppard makes sense. You overcome the barrier that is the 401. Why are people so allergic to Rapid transit spending in Scarborough?
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Ugh. Regionalism.

I was unaware that buses and LRT was incapable of crossing the 401.

Or, perhaps, since STC is a major destination, bus terminal, and designated growth node according to the province AND the city, it would make sense for STC to be the hub rather than creating a major transit hub at McCowan and Sheppard, where there is basically no trip generation and no growth planned.
 
CDL.TO said:
I was unaware that buses and LRT was incapable of crossing the 401.
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Have you not tried to drive across the 401 during rush hour? It's a major barrier! Stopping a lot of people trying to move across it on buses is a significant gain!
 
CDL.TO said:
Ugh. Regionalism.

I was unaware that buses and LRT was incapable of crossing the 401.

Or, perhaps, since STC is a major destination, bus terminal, and designated growth node according to the province AND the city, it would make sense for STC to be the hub rather than creating a major transit hub at McCowan and Sheppard, where there is basically no trip generation and no growth planned.
Click to expand...

Regionalism...that's cute, even from you

The subway or LRT makes sense to reach Sheppard. You who kept saying that SELRT was rapid transit, why would you not connect those two lines together? They're so close to each other and from a network connectivity point of view, it would be ridiculous not to do it.

STC would still be your major transit hub. If anything, connecting it to Sheppard would attract more people to it which would be good for the businesses in that area.

No trip generation? Then why on earth were they planning the Scarborough-Malvern line to begin with?

Regionalism? I'll take the TTC and Metrolinx analysis and numbers justifying that connection over your childish and weak comebacks.
 
connecting it to the SELRT would likely make the most sense as it would be the spot the majority of SELRT riders took the SELRT to. currently, they will take it to Don Mills, then take the Sheppard Subway to the Yonge subway, and the Yonge subway downtown. if the Bloor line is exended, they would take the SELRT to the extended Bloor line, than take it down to the DRL, than the DRL into downtown.

lets look at the pros and cons of each proposal:

Subway
+(possibly) doesn't require shutdown of RT to build
+ makes the SELRT make more sense
+ Faster
+ eliminates transfer
- More expensive
- doesn't serve Centennial


LRT
+ Cheaper
+ Serves Centennial
- Doesn't serve SELRT very well
- extra transfer
- must close RT to build
- slower

I personally would go with the subway, it makes much more sense to me. (even if ridership is a little low)
 
CDL.TO said:
Is there a good reason to believe that would accurately reflect travel patterns, seeing that we will still have plenty of buses in Scarborough no matter which option is chosen?
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I really don't care. Connecting the Scarborough-Danforth extension to the Sheppard East LRT just makes sense from a connectivity point of view. I'm amazed that there are actually people who don't want to tunnel the few extra hundred meters to Sheppard.


Alternatively, would it be a better idea to bring a branch of Sheppard LRT down to STC, rather than taking the subway to Sheppard and McCowan.
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Don't think so. For that to happen, we would need two branches of the SELRT, one to STC and another to Morningside. Seems very inefficient to me. Just build a single Sheppard LRT to Morningside, extend the Scarborough-Danforth to Sheppard and call it a day.
 
innsertnamehere said:
connecting it to the SELRT would likely make the most sense as it would be the spot the majority of SELRT riders took the SELRT to. currently, they will take it to Don Mills, then take the Sheppard Subway to the Yonge subway, and the Yonge subway downtown. if the Bloor line is exended, they would take the SELRT to the extended Bloor line, than take it down to the DRL, than the DRL into downtown.

lets look at the pros and cons of each proposal:

Subway
+(possibly) doesn't require shutdown of RT to build
+ makes the SELRT make more sense
+ Faster
+ eliminates transfer
- More expensive
- doesn't serve Centennial
Click to expand...

Rekindling the Scarborough-Malvern LRT/BRT may be a good idea if we're concerned about serving Malvern. Have it go east from Kennedy Station, northeast along Kingston and then north on Morningside to Sheppard. Alternatavely, the SELRT can be extended south to follow the route described above. This can be done for $1.3 Billion (2006 est) if LRT is used and significantly cheaper if BRT. Scarb will finally have great transit coverage and an extension to Malvern Town Centre would be trivial.

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New_EastYork said:
What would be your solution to provide rapid transit to Centennial Collage and the Malvern community- if the subway option were pursued?
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Serving the Malvern Centre will be relatively easy, using a branch of Sheppard LRT or BRT, going up Neilson.

The loss of connection to Centennial College is a weak point of the subway option. If they are building the Durham - Ellesmere BRT, I would look at the possibility of veering it north off Ellesmere at some point just west of the Highland Creek bridge, then following the Highland Creek valley and reaching Centennial campus from the south, and finally going to STC. However, I am not familiar with the area, and do not know whether such route is technically and fiscally feasible.
 
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innsertnamehere said:
connecting it to the SELRT would likely make the most sense as it would be the spot the majority of SELRT riders took the SELRT to. currently, they will take it to Don Mills, then take the Sheppard Subway to the Yonge subway, and the Yonge subway downtown. if the Bloor line is exended, they would take the SELRT to the extended Bloor line, than take it down to the DRL, than the DRL into downtown.

lets look at the pros and cons of each proposal:

Subway
+(possibly) doesn't require shutdown of RT to build
+ makes the SELRT make more sense
+ Faster
+ eliminates transfer
- More expensive
- doesn't serve Centennial


LRT
+ Cheaper
+ Serves Centennial
- Doesn't serve SELRT very well
- extra transfer
- must close RT to build
- slower

I personally would go with the subway, it makes much more sense to me. (even if ridership is a little low)
Click to expand...

Very nice! 100% accurate description of the pros and cons of the subway option.
 
Solid Snake said:
The subway or LRT makes sense to reach Sheppard. You who kept saying that SELRT was rapid transit
Click to expand...

What on earth are you on about? You clearly have me confused with someone else.

I'll take the TTC and Metrolinx analysis and numbers justifying that connection over your childish and weak comebacks.
Click to expand...

So will I? Hence why I suggested that they study the alternatives. Metrolinx has not studied these alternatives and the TTC has not studied the alternative I mentioned.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
As it should be...

Good job TO Council.
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I'm very much supportive of the Bloor-Danforth extension so I do hope this motion passes, however, it wouldn't surprise me if this fails. At the end of the day, a B-D extension to the Scarborough Town Centre and Sheppard makes the absolute most sense.
 
Even me,a huge subway supporter thinks that the LRT is the better option here. Why? Alignment.
With the LRT route you get a connection to Centennial and by having it go to Sheppard and Progress you can use the old right-of-way near there to get up to Malvern. That right-of-way makes it easy to use cut and cover (the EA talks about this) to keep the line grade separated. There's also a question of whether the subway would go through STC or keep straight on McCowan. Moving the current hub would be a great mistake in my opinion.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Don't think so. For that to happen, we would need two branches of the SELRT, one to STC and another to Morningside. Seems very inefficient to me. Just build a single Sheppard LRT to Morningside, extend the Scarborough-Danforth to Sheppard and call it a day.
Click to expand...

Seeing that the demand is highest on Sheppard between Don Mills and McCowan, I think it could well be more efficient. It would also allow a trip from Scarborough Centre to North York Centre to only involve one transfer, rather than two.

Heck, presuming that the SRT extension would be killed by a BD extension, I think a case could me made for three separate routes:
- Don Mills - Scarborough Centre
- Don Mills - Morningside
- Scarborough Centre - Malvern (via Sheppard)

That way you would have a good network focussed on destinations with the ability to adapt frequencies to demand.
 
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