Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[Cobra]

I was hoping Smarttrack gets completely dropped and council lets Metrolinx carry one with RER. Then approve Crosstown East and Scarborough Subway.

Really hoping that Relief Line (Long) will be the catalyst to Smarttrack's fall....This has been a long agonizing (polarizing) death when it should have been a fast and painful one

 

[jcam]

I was hoping Smarttrack gets completely dropped and council lets Metrolinx carry one with RER. Then approve Crosstown East and Scarborough Subway.

Really hoping that Relief Line (Long) will be the catalyst to Smarttrack's fall....This has been a long agonizing (polarizing) death when it should have been a fast and painful one

And GO fares on UPX has made it a moot point in the west end, essentially bringing a 3-stop RER in 7 years early.

 

[WislaHD]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/john-torys-two-transit-plans-fighting-for-same-riders/article29027573/

Does anyone feel like City Planning is outright fiddling with the numbers at this point?

The new transit ridership figures show that, according to modelling done for the city by researchers at the University of Toronto, the three– or four-stop Scarborough subway extension Mr. Tory campaigned on would have a peak usage of 13,700 to 17,700 people per hour per direction. That is in line with an earlier projection, but the figure drops sharply when the mayor’s SmartTrack proposal is added to the mix.

With SmartTrack running trains at 15-minute intervals, the peak number of passengers using the Scarborough extension goes down to 12,600. And with it running every five minutes – which earlier city reports have suggested would be necessary – Scarborough peak ridership goes down to 9,800.

The lowest figure from the latest report is barely more than the 9,500 people city staff projected years ago. That figure was considered marginal for a subway and was later replaced by projection for 14,000 riders, which made the case for a subway stronger but attracted accusations of fiddling the numbers.

Colour me skeptical on these numbers. They must be assuming a lot of growth at Scarborough Town Centre. I bet you the 1-stop subway will have considerably less than 9,800 riders.

---------

This, combined with the Relief Line ridership projections. If you look closely to those projections, City Planning is assuming scenarios with lots of growth under SmartTrack, but little to none under Relief Line. This is evidenced by the fact that when SmartTrack is at 15 minute service, the Relief Line's ridership goes up substantially, not to make up for the lack of ST service, but because SmartTrack assumes significantly more growth.

 

[Palma]

Plus i thought most of the people in Scarborough do not travel downtown but stay in Scarborough. What happened to this premise? It would have been a lot less expensive if everyone in Scarborough had voted on a referendum, (not necessarily binding but so that politician would know how they feel and reflect their transit needs and would be another piece of the puzzel). Subway with 1-3 stops or LRT with more. Thats the only way. Politicians would save face (assuming LRT won)

 

[Edward Skira]

They must be assuming a lot of growth at Scarborough Town Centre.

A very bad assumption. Don't expect much growth in the area even if the subway is extended. Construction costs in the area are the same as downtown yet prices they can sell at are much lower. Harder to make a profit in Scarborough.

 

[coffey1]

Hate to give any "anti Scarborough" media outlets any extra clicks. Content wise this article itself is not that bad compared to others. But it's time to start being called out. The pictures have been selectively picked for their selfish narrative. See Scarborough town center surrounding farm fields from 50 years ago & then see the crowded picture for the need of the DRL. Truly says all you need to know about Toronto's political issues and the muffled voice in Toronto's outlying areas.

Outsiders really don't care, likely don't even understand the media is that bad, but people here do. It's pretty damn offensive to have this ongoing subtle (sometimes not so much )media slant and assault used against such large neglected area of the City in desperate need for a strong voice to fight back.

http://torontoist.com/2016/03/torontos-march-2016-transit-reports-mean-citys-future/

 

[minilude]

STC used to have condos topping up but investors start abandoning this area because the return in the past decade is not very good.

 

[coffey1]

STC used to have condos topping up but investors start abandoning this area because the return in the past decade is not very good.

The RT was not a selling feature & the subway will certainly help to an extent. But there's a bigger problem driving the lack of investment in Scarborough.

It all stems from municipal political chaos, local political media portraying an inferior image & lack of leadership to invest in growing Toronto's suburbs as a true priority. Land is expensive everywhere in the GTA not just Toronto.. Mississauga sells, Markham sells, Richmond Hill sells, Burlington, Oakville, etc. They all invest heavily & as a main priority to attract & promote developers to build quality projects to leave a strong legacy which can be built upon.

You have an area which borders the one of North America's major economic Cities, which also has some of the most beautiful parks in the GTA.. Yet there is minimal real attempt to attract business locally. Investment flocks to golden egg downtown making it easy money compared to other areas of the GTA which need to compete. Toronto's outlying areas go without any serious plan to attract growth on a competitive level. The 905 areas which are booming as well all try very to attract investment as there priority.

There is no excuses anymore. Watching a revitalization plan on east Kingston rd that include stucco condos, brand new rust colour daycares, and massive homeless shelter is not what I would consider curb appeal and attractive for the future. We're better off leaving motels & car lots until there is a greater plan in place. This is what passes as revitalization project? It leaves a legacy that cant be as easily redeveloped like a farm or car lot. Even Grimsby builds nicer condo's than Scarborough right now. Even Mississauga's outlying areas like Erin Mills is attempting to build a legacy with cutting edge projects. You build quality in the GTA and people will invest.

The subway & LRT will certainly help spur a higher grade of investment but the lack of leadership to prioritize Scarborough to become attractive in the same urgency as 905 municipalities is still missing.

 

[lead82]

You are correct in that Scarborough has no plan to encourage more intensification and growth in the centre area around the mall. There is so much vacant land and parking lots that could be developed. However, there are no incentives to do so. There is no demand for commercial, because people want to work downtown. North York Centre has tried to encourage commercial development but failed to do so in the last 30 years, only 1 new office building was constructed. The new Hullmark Centre which has some office is mostly empty from what I hear.

Scarborough should have a new zoning and district master plan created with some massive incentives to build high density residential to make it more urban. North York Centre is a success because it's built along an urban street. Scarborough needs to create a district plan that encourages more street retail. Maybe it's time to demolish the mall and have the stores spread out into an outdoor district so there are more people on the street and more street-life. Perhaps the city should buy up the land and build affordable housing with street level retail. Living in Scarborough centre would get better transportation links and the buildings are a lot cheaper to build.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Don't forget the NIMBYs would rise up if there is an intensification project in their neighbourhood. Or go against sidewalks, sidewalks, sidewalks, but want subways, subway, subways running under green pastures.

 

[coffey1]

Don't forget the NIMBYs would rise up if there is an intensification project in their neighbourhood. Or go against sidewalks, sidewalks, sidewalks, but want subways, subway, subways running under green pastures.

NIMBY's are in every City and every corner & at the heart of our City. It's used as an excuse in this City to cover up for the short comings of a highly dysfunctional government.

But do some people in this City really believe NIMBY's only exist in Scarborough? Awe the media is a powerful tool

 

[Palma]

NIMBY's are in every City and every corner & at the heart of our City. It's used as an excuse in this City to cover up for the short comings of a highly dysfunctional government.

But do some people in this City really believe NIMBY's only exist in Scarborough? Awe the media is a powerful tool

NIMBY's are in every City and every corner & at the heart of our City. It's used as an excuse in this City to cover up for the short comings of a highly dysfunctional government.

But do some people in this City really believe NIMBY's only exist in Scarborough? Awe the media is a powerful tool

google Humbertown redevelopment articles. But the problem is I think many of these units are built too small and people fear for investment which means renters and constant new stream of people. How they can call 600sq a 1 bedroom is beyond me.

 

[crs1026]

There is no excuses anymore. Watching a revitalization plan on east Kingston rd that include stucco condos, brand new rust colour daycares, and massive homeless shelter is not what I would consider curb appeal and attractive for the future. We're better off leaving motels & car lots until there is a greater plan in place. .

Scarboro isn't alone in that. The townhomes being built along Eglinton West are just as ugly, and that's in an allegedly overpriviliged nimby neighbourhood. The reality is that the checks and balances on development are weak in this city, and developers ram lots of undesirable abuses through the process.

IMHO this is the biggest risk with STC. Once we build the subway extension, Council will be desperate to attract development. And, they will want to maximise development charges. If a developer wants more profit, will they push back? Probably not. Instead of deriving revenue, the city may be forced into offering financial incentives and looking the other way on design to compete with the downtown development. STC could end up being really awful.

We need to be careful what we ask for - it's what we will get.

- Paul

 

[crs1026]

google Humbertown redevelopment articles. But the problem is I think many of these units are built too small and people fear for investment which means renters and constant new stream of people. How they can call 600sq a 1 bedroom is beyond me.

If you want to be balanced, google Stonegate development. Humbertown is where many of the city's best lawyers live. You aren't going to ram a greedy oversized development into that corner of the city. There is nothing wrong with citizens forming a well resourced, well organized residents' association and using their skills to obtain political leverage. The original Humbertown proposal deserved to be opposed, especially since the surrounding affordable housing properties were dominoes that would have fallen as well. Even so, the threat that the OMB would ignore City Council's decision weighed heavily on the community in negotiations..... lawyers or not.

Stonegate is a lower-income district which has a much more transient and unorganized citizen base. No lawyers live there. The developer was equally greedy, and community opposition was harder to muster. In the end, the developer got most of what they wanted.

Scarboro better be ready for what is proposed.

- Paul

 

[muller877]

You are correct in that Scarborough has no plan to encourage more intensification and growth in the centre area around the mall. There is so much vacant land and parking lots that could be developed. However, there are no incentives to do so. There is no demand for commercial, because people want to work downtown. North York Centre has tried to encourage commercial development but failed to do so in the last 30 years, only 1 new office building was constructed. The new Hullmark Centre which has some office is mostly empty from what I hear.

Scarborough should have a new zoning and district master plan created with some massive incentives to build high density residential to make it more urban. North York Centre is a success because it's built along an urban street. Scarborough needs to create a district plan that encourages more street retail. Maybe it's time to demolish the mall and have the stores spread out into an outdoor district so there are more people on the street and more street-life. Perhaps the city should buy up the land and build affordable housing with street level retail. Living in Scarborough centre would get better transportation links and the buildings are a lot cheaper to build.

The commercial growth in the outer districts died as part of amalgamation. NY, Scar & Etobicoke all had lower commercial rates and incentives for offices near their respective development areas. Without this incentive builders have decided to be downtown (which causes strain on our transit network). The only way to reinvigorate these areas would be for Toronto to give some commercial tax breaks for development (which would encourage shorter commute times and reverse commuting).