News   Jun 28, 2024
 1K     1 
News   Jun 28, 2024
 1K     1 
News   Jun 28, 2024
 491     1 

Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

It's not the downtown/inner city regions where Toronto is expensive compared to it's contemporaries but in the suburbs where other city's build elevated or at-grade while Toronto insists on tunneling so as not to distract from the views and bohemian atmosphere of McDonalds and Walmart.
 
What's Vancouver paying right now for the fully grade-separated Evergreen line, about $140M/km?
What are we paying for the Spadina extension, $370M/km.
How about Eglinton that is 60% underground and 40% on-street, $340M/km.
 
That made sense when commodity prices were high and there was an oil boom in Alberta sucking away construction workers. I would think prices would be lower now..
Very true, but cost escalation is a pretty complicated thing. Falling commodities prices help, and while the raw material costs of glass and aluminium and steel might be lower, the prices to manipulate those raw materials into useful things are still increasing. Labour, transportation, and energy prices play a big role here.

And while it is true that the oil boom certainly play a part in draining workers across Canada, that has been less of an issue in Ontario than in other provinces because of the pronounced building boom in the GTA. There is still a lot of demand for technologists, engineers, project managers, trade workers, etc, and a big shortage in the talent pool. The US market is also quite busy right now, and especially with the falling Loonie, this is sucking away the time and talent of many professional firms who are landing contracts down south.

Another thing to not forget is that a high-demand market creates supply-chain bottlenecks, meaning delayed production slots and higher prices commanded by the suppliers. Never forget that every construction trade that you see on-site is supplied by a network of dozens, if not hundreds of smaller suppliers.

There are also less obvious issues, such as clients requiring extended warranties much more often than in the past, where standard warranty periods were okay. Or the rising cost of liability insurance.
 
Last edited:
What's Vancouver paying right now for the fully grade-separated Evergreen line, about $140M/km?
What are we paying for the Spadina extension, $370M/km.
How about Eglinton that is 60% underground and 40% on-street, $340M/km.

$340m? Its $270 million per km.. (5.1 billion / 19km) And apparently they actually came under budget on the P3., though that includes maintenance so its difficult to determine how much of the savings came from construction.
 
Keesmat smirks at the questions surrounding changing a funded subway plan. This is all just a lot talk, questions, debates, stall.... Toronto politics continue to hold Scarborough hostage. Rinse and F'n repeat for 20 more years.
 
Last edited:
The newest Keesmaat - Tory plan is not bad by itself; LRT on Eglinton - Kingston - Morningside will be quite useful.

But it carries some risk as it defers the final sign-off for the subway extension.

I recommend Scarberians to be vigilant, and:

a) Ask to put the Lawrence East station back. It is OK if the station is built at Brimley or at Midland, instead of McCowan / the hospital. Go for the cheapest route and the cheapest station. But, put the station back. Without the Lawrence station, the whole project looks weird and there will be a temptation to keep re-writing it.

b) Consider creating a subway / LRT interchange and an LRT hub at Scarborough Centre. Residents living east and north of STC will benefit from such connection, and in addition, the whole thing will be harder to cancel.
 
a) Ask to put the Lawrence East station back. It is OK if the station is built at Brimley or at Midland, instead of McCowan / the hospital. Go for the cheapest route and the cheapest station. But, put the station back. Without the Lawrence station, the whole project looks weird and there will be a temptation to keep re-writing it.

b) Consider creating a subway / LRT interchange and an LRT hub at Scarborough Centre. Residents living east and north of STC will benefit from such connection, and in addition, the whole thing will be harder to cancel.

a) No. The rail corridor to the west is being double tracked (or more) and an RER/SloganTrack station there can be built from the ruins of the RT much more cheaply as it's at grade and in the open.

b) Yes. There are some interesting possibilities for a network using some bits of the RT system and its planned expansion as well as the Sheppard plan, though the money to do that may be lacking.
 
a) No. The rail corridor to the west is being double tracked (or more) and an RER/SloganTrack station there can be built from the ruins of the RT much more cheaply as it's at grade and in the open.

Let's not forget about the connectivity inside Scarborough. The RER/SloganTrack station will take care of Lawrence East riders heading downtown.

But residents living near Lawrence East and travelling to STC will much appreciate a connection to the subway.

The cost of a simple station without a bus terminal should not be that high compared to the total cost of subway extension; perhaps $150 million. That will be less than 10% of the extension, but bring in 15-20% more riders than a single-stop option.

b) Yes. There are some interesting possibilities for a network using some bits of the RT system and its planned expansion as well as the Sheppard plan, though the money to do that may be lacking.

Money will be an issue. However, I would think of deferring LRT on Sheppard East and instead building one or two LRT lines that feed into STC and connect it to Malvern Centre, and perhaps Markville mall up McCowan.

Such LRTs would get more support from the locals than SELRT, and likely be more useful for them too.
 
Money will be an issue. However, I would think of deferring LRT on Sheppard East and instead building one or two LRT lines that feed into STC and connect it to Malvern Centre, and perhaps Markville mall up McCowan.

Such LRTs would get more support from the locals than SELRT, and likely be more useful for them too.

Yes, maybe something from STC to Centennial College, then up to Malvern, but on-street rather than the overblown plan that was approved a few years back.
 
Arguably Scarborough getting the Scarborough subway, Crosstown East LRT, SmartTrack and a chance at reviving the Sheppard subway to STC sounds like a winning package deal for Scarberians to me.

Yes. But you are assuming that any of this is getting built. It's smells more like Politically kick-ball instead of just going ahead and building the subway. Scarborough has been here before & Tory has really shown nothing to make anyone believe he's a man of his word.

Until construction is complete it's the same old story for Scarborough. Another Politician will come in soon enough with their new transit flavor of the of the year. Keesmat couldn't hide her smirk when she was asked about tearing apart a concrete funded plan. Nothing is concrete in Scarborough except the old apartment buildings & sidewalks.

The more I read about this announcement the more I just see the Political transit circus continuing. If Tory doesn't show he's serious about this subway by fast tracking it & committing to adding in a stop at Lawrence he's likely in trouble out here. It's a solid plan I agree. But it's just another plan
 
Last edited:

Back
Top