Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[wopchop]

In the long run, the benefits of redeveloping that stretch of employment lands - be it densification or rezoning more than outweighs whatever benefit that short stretch of Eglinton can offer.

AoD

Perhaps, and I'm not saying that I disagree with you, but how likely is that to actually happen?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Perhaps, and I'm not saying that I disagree with you, but how likely is that to actually happen?

Actually, densification and conversion of employment lands to other uses are already happening all over the city - and it is far, far more likely than redevelopment of single detached housing (which is close to never).

I knew the Kennedy modification were expensive, but I'm surprised it managed to inflate the cost to $4.1 Billoon. Perhaps at grade via McCowan corridor would be cheaper.

No one is going to do at grade at McCowan.

AoD

 

[TheTigerMaster]

We should be focusing on where the stops are along the route not what's along the route itself. This also goes for the Bellamy alignment. The Toronto Star puts a nice picture of a tree lined street to help their ridiculous narrative. But the actually stop location at Eglinton is a really solid development area, closer to Kingston & Eglinton & connects to the GO station. This single family home nonsense has no merit.

Yeah it is nonsensical.

Thankfully we have actual data to make these decisions easy for us. The SLRT has a lot more developable land, largely thanks to the greater number of stations. It also doesn't run through as many residential areas, where there would be opposition to development.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Actually, densification and conversion of employment lands to other uses are already happening all over the city - and it is far, far more likely than redevelopment of single detached housing (which is close to never).

AoD

Really? I thought the province was rather protective of employment lands, especially in industrial areas

 

[coffey1]

First of all, Smarttrack/GO RER isn't supposed to make all the stops, like you've said - and why, bus routes can't feed into these stations? You are moving the route east by 1km - don't make it sound as if it will suddenly change the ridership picture completely if you are playing the whole mode-change aspect as the raison d'etre.



Do you really want to argue with me the redevelopability of this:

View attachment 51052

versus this:

View attachment 51053

AoD

Aside from good ol' Nimbyism single family homes are not that difficult to replace once re-zoning occurs. If your only measure is comparing industrial lands vs. SFH then yes you're right.

There are many other factors including the existing medium to high rise along Eglinton, Kingston, & Lawrence which would be in closer proximity and have a shorter commute to a subway stop. Many of these commuters don't have cars & anything we can do to give then better access to higher quality jobs is of great importance.

 

[wopchop]

Actually, employment and conversion of employment to other uses are already happening all over the city - and it is far, far more likely than redevelopment of single detached housing (which is close to never).

AoD

I never said that single-detached would be redeveloped, so not sure why you are making that argument with me.

I would say that The City has also been, in general, pretty protective of converting employment to other uses (ie. total loss of employment land) so I'm not sure what you mean.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Aside from good ol' Nimbyism single family homes are not that difficult to replace once re-zoning occurs. If your only measure is comparing industrial lands vs. SFH then yes your are right.

Really? How many recent examples of recent rezoning of SFH en masse can you provide?

There are many other factors including the existing medium to high rise along Eglinton, Kingston, & Lawrence which would be in closer proximity and have a shorter commute to a subway stop. Many of these commuters don't have cars & anything we can do to give then better access to higher quality jobs is of great importance.

Let's not pretend that the existing RT alignment doesn't serve existing medium/high rises either (e.g. Lawrence East), with just as much immediate redevelopability.

AoD

 

[TOareaFan]

Really? How many recent examples of recent rezoning of SFH en masse can you provide?

aside from the rezoning difficulties....land assembly is extremely difficult as you are negotiating with a bunch of individual small property owners....some will want a premium over sfd market price...some will seek to really cash in and some will just not want to move for irrational or emotional issues.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

aside from the rezoning difficulties....land assembly is extremely difficult as you are negotiating with a bunch of individual small property owners....some will want a premium over sfd market price...some will seek to really cash in and some will just not want to move for irrational or emotional issues.

Yup - that's exactly it - for all intents and purposes it won't be happening.

AoD

 

[nfitz]

Smarttrack/GO RER will eat into some of the Western ridership & eliminate the need for the industrial land stops. I haven't read this one but Id take any consultant report with a grain of salt. Ridership can also change heavily based on what development the City allows in the future.

You claim the McCowan alignment has more riders than using the SRT alignment, but you basically claim that the professionals that show the opposite are wrong? I'm supposed to trust you over a professional who is legally bound by a code of ethics? The only station between Scarborough Centre and Kennedy retained on the RT alignment was Lawrence East. It's hardly industrial lands - there's more residential and commercial demand around that station than industrial.

Neither route is optimal IMO but when the two are compared the McCowan corridor takes a much more Central route & with a stop at Danforth/Eglinton area this line will be highly effective

And yet the RT alignment has more passengers, and more people who live close to it.

 

[coffey1]

Yeah it is nonsensical.

Thankfully we have actual data to make these decisions easy for us. The SLRT has a lot more developable land, largely thanks to the greater number of stations. It also doesn't run through as many residential areas, where there would be opposition to development.

Who'

Really? How many recent examples of recent rezoning of SFH en masse can you provide?



Let's not pretend that the existing RT alignment doesn't serve existing medium/high rises either (e.g. Lawrence East)

AoD

Quite frankly I don't even think its that necessary to demo the SFH's & its only a topic because its seems like a narrative that might stick. Like I said the stop location dont require this & last time I checked the housing surrounding Bloor in Etobicoke are just fine where they are. If the day comes in 100 years or so to further intensify growth in the City it would be that hard with SFH's.

The further Central & East we go the greater benefit for the majority of Scarborough commuters. The RT route is not as efficient

 

[wopchop]

And yet the RT alignment has more passengers, and more people who live close to it.

Yeah ... there are probably more people living in the towers and towns at Kennedy & Ellesmere than along the entire McCowan Route from Eglinton to Ellesmere.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The further Central & East we go the greater benefit for the majority of Scarborough commuters. The RT route is not as efficient

Repeating things over and over again doesn't make it true.

AoD

 

[coffey1]

You claim the McCowan alignment has more riders than using the SRT alignment, but you basically claim that the professionals that show the opposite are wrong? I'm supposed to trust you over a professional who is legally bound by a code of ethics? The only station between Scarborough Centre and Kennedy retained on the RT alignment was Lawrence East. It's hardly industrial lands - there's more residential and commercial demand around that station than industrial.

And yet the RT alignment has more passengers, and more people who live close to it.

Believe who you want. I certainly don't trust politically paid "professionals" as much as you do. Its all how you decide to interpret data and what "professional" reports & criteria you feel is important in the overall scheme.

End of the day the Province has always built infrastructure based on Political drivers with "professionals" as support to their narrative. Scarborough has been on the short end of the stick all to often. And you can clearly see once again the Politically motivated propaganda machine like the Toronto Star with a non-stop attack on the SSE trying to ensure that continues. Tough to fight a political media powerhouse who is trying to put the funding for their own gain.

 

[coffey1]

Repeating things over and over again doesn't make it true.

AoD

No but is surely shows I stand by my opinion. Which is more valid than someone that likely doesn't ride the RT consistently.