Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[nfitz]

Believe who you want. I don't trust politically paid "professionals" as much as you do. Its all how you decide to interpret data and what "professional" reports & criteria you feel is important in the overall scheme.

So what's the basis for you conclusion that the McCowan alignment has higher ridership? Do you have any evidence to back up that assumption?

And presumably any bias was to pick McCowan, why would the politically paid "professionals" have noted that the RT alignment had higher ridership (if they were both subway). If the fix was in, wouldn't they have spun it the other way?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

No but is surely shows I stand by my opinion. Which is more valid than someone that likely doesn't ride the RT consistently.

Riding the RT consistently doesn't make you a planning expert or an engineer, and it certainly doesn't put you in a position of being immune to challenges regarding the soundness or cost effectiveness of your preferred plan.

AoD

 

[coffey1]

Yeah ... there are probably more people living in the towers and towns at Kennedy & Ellesmere than along the entire McCowan Route from Eglinton to Ellesmere.

There are many more high rise areas which will see their bus commute reduced greatly & in the end it serves a greater purpose. We are clearly not building a stop at the front door for everyone so central stop locations to cut feeder commutes down is more important than how many can walk to the stop. LRT's or BRT can do that in the future... But that another fight in another century likely when its truly needed. Buses to feed the subway are fine for now.

 

[coffey1]

Riding the RT consistently doesn't make you a planning expert or an engineer, and it certainly doesn't put you in a position of being immune to challenges regarding the soundness or cost effectiveness of your preferred plan.

AoD

Its how I decide interpret the politically motivated "expert" reports against my own personal experience. If the goal is to make Scarborough divided into 2nd to 3rd class Toronto citizens in the future then I agree build the "expert" segregated LRT network with odd alignment and transfers.

There's no excuse for the Sheppard LRT to connect to a very short Subway headed in the same direction, aside from displaying to everyone that Scarborough doesn't have the Political power to receive the more expensive "expert" design. Either convert the current subway to LRT above or below ground or continue the subway. Please don't ever refer to the current LRT scheme "expert" or "professional". It was Professionals doing what they were paid to do

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Its how I decide interpret the politically motivated "expert" reports against my own personal experience. If the goal is to make Scarborough 2nd to 3rd class Toronto then I agree build the "expert" segregated LRT network with odd alignment and transfers.

Nuff said. It was never about planning, it's about the perception of being dissed/slighted. Good luck with your efforts.

AoD

 

[nfitz]

Its how I decide interpret the politically motivated "expert" reports against my own personal experience.

Why would the politically motivated expert report that showed the McCowan alignment is cheaper, leading to the selection of McCowan be claiming the RT alignment had more ridership?

Surely that just utterly defeats your entire premise?

And why aren't you wearing any clothes?

I'll trust the experts. If they get caught lying, they lose their jobs, and perhaps their careers. If you get caught lying you change you screen name.

 

[coffey1]

Why would the politically motivated expert report that showed the McCowan alignment is cheaper, leading to the selection of McCowan be claiming the RT alignment had more ridership?
I'll trust the experts. If they get caught lying, they lose their jobs, and perhaps their careers. If you get caught lying you change you screen name.

BS they'll never lose there jobs. Especially over creating criteria to support something like ridership. That can be skewed and measured numerous different ways. Every government party is paying huge money for "experts" to support their narratives. No one is losing their jobs because that's actually the business they're in

Also I never said the McCowan alignment report was politically motivated If you go back and read I actually said ive never read that exact article so I didnt comment on it specifically.

Since you may have read the report. Did it happen to take into account the 4th stop on Eglinton?

 

[nfitz]

BS they'll never lose there jobs. Especially over creating criteria to support something like ridership

Your just making stuff up now ...

 

[coffey1]

Nuff said. It was never about planning, it's about the perception of being dissed/slighted. Good luck with your efforts.

AoD

Actually its all comes back to planning. Furthermore it comes back to being cheap from the get-go during design. The LRT would have likely seen enough support if it was integrated effectively and properly funded by the Province. Too many inconveniences and large areas of Scarborough left behind to actually garner the support needed to prevent another Political opportunist to come along and change the game.

Good luck with yours efforts as well. Last time I checked saw the polls the anti-Scarborough expert candidates weren't doing too well in elections. Anything is possible

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Good luck with yours efforts as well. Last time I checked saw the polls the anti-Scarborough expert candidates weren't doing too well in elections. Anything is possible

Ah, thankfully, success isn't defined by who got elected, and class isn't determined by whether one get a subway or not.

AoD

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Really? As far as im aware this is what's being built. The alternative is only wanted from those that would never use it & care about feeding issue within their own backyard. 9700 riders is actually good compared to other subway lines in this City.

But hey it's Scarborough get out your pitchforks and join the Toronto Star in the politically driven agenda calls foul on everyone but themselves. Let's cut the crap tax & build the DRL & SSE together & cut out the poorly integrated LRT nonsense. Better bus service and future BRT will do fine to feed riders into the Subway & all Torontonians will have reasonable access quality jobs

The LRT as its designed & funded in Scarborough is more of an inconvenience & doesn't solve the greatest current concern which is isolating the majority of commuters from the core through multiple transfers. The LRT only increases that issue.

That's your problem if you support lower taxes. You can't have both. And this has not even begun construction. You can't handle a transfer?

 

[coffey1]

Ah, thankfully, success isn't defined by who got elected, and class isn't determined by whether one get a subway or not.

AoD

North York has a subway because of a specific elected Mayor
Vaughan is receiving a subway because of??? Ya local & provincial Poltiicians
Actually every transit line built was because of elected officials..... Even the Yonge line was mired in Politics & didn't grow organically out of the ground

It has a lot to do with who's elected & very little to do with who you and I believe is an expert

Are your saying there are not more wealthier class citizens in Toronto located around transit lines? Please show me your wealth distribution map of Toronto because ive seen many that don't support this whatsoever. But Im open to reading new information if you have it.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Smarttrack/GO RER will eat into some of the Western ridership & eliminate the need for the industrial land stops. I haven't read this one but Id take any consultant report with a grain of salt. Ridership can also change heavily based on what development the City allows in the future.

Neither route is optimal IMO but when the two are compared the McCowan corridor takes a much more Central route & with a stop at Danforth/Eglinton area this line will be highly effective

What's your basis for that?

The infamous September 2013 city report, estimated that the ridership for building subway along the RT alignment to Sheppard was higher than using the McCowan alignment to Sheppard. The catch was, using the existing RT alignment would have cost $4.1 to $4.3 billion rather than $3.6 billion for the McCowan alignment.

nfitz, Murray said the SRT corridor would only cost 1.8 billion. And coffey where is the proof Smarttrack would eat into the ridership and if so why build the subway at all? And don't respond because everyone else has one.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

North York has a subway because of a specific elected Mayor
Vaughan is receiving a subway because of??? Ya local & provincial Poltiicians
Actually every transit line built was because of elected officials..... Even the Yonge line was mired in Politics & didn't grow organically out of the ground

It has a lot to do with who's elected & very little to do with who you and I believe is an expert

Are your saying there are not more wealthier class citizens in Toronto located around transit lines? Please show me your wealth distribution map of Toronto because ive seen many that don't support this whatsoever. But Im open to reading new information if you have it.

Come on. Almost no one here supports vaughan and their stubway and we have a huge fight over richmond hill. Suburban Subways (all of them) are political exercises? So why continue building them and losing money.

 

[coffey1]

That's your problem if you support lower taxes. You can't have both. And this has not even begun construction. You can't handle a transfer?

I personally support higher taxes for the purposes of transportation. Trust me im 100% on board with taxes for transit. It's a necessary reality but one hell of a tough sell to anybody whether you live downtown, or outside the core, or whether your rich or poor no one wants to pay. Im of the opinion if your going to build something do it once and do it right. NOT CHEAP

Even the Liberals are too scared to introduce taxes even after multiple studies. The Cons wont even bother to discuss transit because its too easy watching the Liberals squirm and try to not fumble the hot tax potato. Should be interesting to see if and how they can actually pull it off.