Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[AlvinofDiaspar]

bobbob911:

Yeah Mihevc's poison pill - which is nice, but it has a very good chance of sinking the whole thing and necessitate an Act 3 (4?) on this ongoing saga. I am just not convinced that the Feds would be willing to shell out an additional 400M when the predominant theme on their playbook is restraint.

Well, at this point I'd rather have a week long circus than one that comes back every 3 months.

AoD

 

[kEiThZ]

AoD,

The SELRT also does the same. Those riders have to get downtown somehow. The only question is whether they are on the train or on the platform at Bloor. So the increase in pressure on Yonge-Bloor by extending BD vice building the SELRT is marginal at best. Hopefully, this will finally prompt real discussion on getting the DRL built.

I agree on some of your other points, though personally, I have no issues moving the funds if the subway will actually benefit more riders (which it clearly will....).

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Keithz:

The SELRT also does the same. Those riders have to get downtown somehow. The only question is whether they are on the train or on the platform at Bloor. So the increase in pressure on Yonge-Bloor by extending BD vice building the SELRT is marginal at best. Hopefully, this will finally prompt real discussion on getting the DRL built.

Except you can't play this BD extension will attract new riders (which is what's been put forward as a rationale) and then claim it won't create pressure on Y+B game. Besides, if SELRT feeds into anything - it'd probably go to Yonge/Sheppard, not Y+B like a BD extension would.

By all means take the SELRT funding away - but I would demand it (or an equivalent amount of money) be spent on the following - funding BD ATC and Y+B improvements such that they are ready for the opening of the BD extension.

AoD

 

[Thoughtless Miscreant]

If anyone thinks Scarborough is getting any new transit after this vote they're delusional. The SRT conversion will be cancelled, the Feds will use this as an excuse to pull out of Sheppard, and the province will send the subway extension off to planning hell, where it'll die a few years from now due to some new political reality. But hey, at least Councillor De Baeremaeker will get reelected.

 

[RC8]

The LRT will attract users other than those heading downtown, while the subway will be more of a drive-to commuter destination.

I understand why a lot of people like the 'sound' of the subway better. They probably feel, among other things, that had they gotten a subway in the first place rather than the SRT their lives would be much improved. Unfortunately if you understand the details you should realise that the LRT is a great and even better alternative.

If I was from Scarborough I would opt for the LRT even if it was costlier to build. It serves more neighbourhoods, institutions, and will make Scarborough a much more liveable place. In my opinion regardless of Ford-induced perceptions, the LRT is simply the better transit plan. It's a shame that only Mike Layton and Adam Vaughan, Perks, and Matlow have brought up these points in the debate. They come across as the only councillors capable of understanding the virtues of good planning - but instead they are all grouped as downtown elitists.

 

[freshcutgrass]

What are the annual operational costs of the subway vs LRT proposal, and what effect does it have on the TTC's overall operational budget?

We worry too much about the efficient use of limited capital funds, and not enough about the efficient use of operational budgets to run them.

Cutting funding to transit, when ridership is growing is not wise. Adding more money-losing routes to the system will just make it worse.

 

[RC8]

I don't think Scarborough will be a huge money loser either way. Unlike in North York, there's enough car-less low-income people in Scarborough to make their subway work.

Now, the magnitude of benefits per dollar invested would be much greater with the LRT routing and plan.

 

[BurlOak]

The LRT will attract users other than those heading downtown, while the subway will be more of a drive-to commuter destination.

But the LRT will require a transfer whether you are going downtown of to other parts of Toronto. It is good for those going from Malvern to STC, but to other, non downtown, parts of Toronto, it would have to be connected to the Eglinton LRT and not separate from it.

 

[M II A II R II K]

[video=youtube;_vCpKUNRBEw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vCpKUNRBEw [/video]

 

[Voltz]

If anyone thinks Scarborough is getting any new transit after this vote they're delusional. The SRT conversion will be cancelled, the Feds will use this as an excuse to pull out of Sheppard, and the province will send the subway extension off to planning hell, where it'll die a few years from now due to some new political reality. But hey, at least Councillor De Baeremaeker will get reelected.

How anyone who has even the slightest bit of knowledge of the history of transit projects and cancellations in this city could think otherwise is beyond me.

It is yet another example of the irrational subway obsession being a drain on transit expansion for more than a generation, whenever a rational transit plan is proposed it inevitability dies because to many people think subways will cure cancer and end world hunger or something.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

BurlOak:

But the LRT will require a transfer whether you are going downtown of to other parts of Toronto. It is good for those going from Malvern to STC, but to other, non downtown, parts of Toronto, it would have to be connected to the Eglinton LRT and not separate from it.

But just what is so big deal about a transfer per se, especially during a time when there are frequent service? Nobody stay away from using YUS or BD because they have to transfer at St. George or Y+B. It might be suboptimal, but a sheltered transfers on routes with high frequency definitely isn't a killer that some make it out to be. Arguing for a subway strictly on that basis is pretty weak.

AoD

 

[Voltz]

But the LRT will require a transfer whether you are going downtown of to other parts of Toronto. It is good for those going from Malvern to STC, but to other, non downtown, parts of Toronto, it would have to be connected to the Eglinton LRT and not separate from it.

But spending more than a billion dollars to eliminate that transfer is a massive waste of money. Investing that money in other transit projects in Scarborough would be a vast improvement overall for transit riders in Scarborough, and I'm one of them.

 

[M II A II R II K]

It being a linear transfer makes it silly. Unless a transfer is made available to take the GO instead. And plus the subway Lawrence East station would be more beneficial serving the museum and hospital.

 

[Voltz]

It being a linear transfer makes it silly. Unless a transfer is made available to take the GO instead. And plus the subway Lawrence East station would be more beneficial serving the museum and hospital.

The word silly should not be apart of any rational transportation plan, nor any kind of justification for anything, especially not when it comes to a billion dollars.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

MARK:

It maybe silly - but that in itself is insufficient to justify spending 1B+ to eliminate that transfer. I think the current ridership level makes for a far better argument.

AoD