Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[Hopkins123]

heres some solutions... find a job closer where you live... find a job where you can work remotely... move closer to a more transit oriented community... build a teleporter.

Or make rents downtown a hell of a lot cheaper and maybe then more people would be able to afford living right up next to a YUS or BD station.

No one is particularly wed to the notion of living far away from the core out of real preference for a "simpler" lifestyle. There's nothing simple about having to travel up to two hours one way to get anywhere for me personally. We just want better options for most, no matter where in the city they happen to live or work. If the subway network expanded as far east as it does west, I don't think many people would have anything to complain about.

 

[Suburban_Toronto]

Nothing to add that has already been said but as I Scarborough resident I am so disappointed.

Scarborough Town Centre will be getting $4 billion dollar in investment while the rest of Scarborough will be neglected.

I keep going back to this study done by a prof at UTSC:

https://uttri.utoronto.ca/files/2015/03/Choices-for-Scarborough.pdf

Again the best transit plan was Sheppard LRT, Eglington East LRT, Scarborough LRT all integrated with Rapid GO transit on the Markham stouville line. This would help residents get downtown faster and open up huge areas for redevelopment and revitalisation. To top it all off I'm pretty confident that at least two of these lines would have been completed or under construction right now and probably within the 4 billion dollar budget.

I'm honestly trying my best out here to create positive change, emailing both my councillor and MPP but I was wondering does anyone know of any other efforts from locals to rally around preventing this disaster? After speaking with friends and family in the area, most are misinformed but once we got talking they kinda of get it but they are so apathetic...they literally feel like oh were from Scarborough this what politicians do to us.

 

[OneCity]

Thank you. I think pickering is too far down the road, but it's nice to hear about the Scarborough Loop.

Any extension outside of the RL short would only be a design start and next phase for down the road. If they were to go to Malvern then might as well terminate at the Seaton hub

The RL short is the only portion that would likely stay on a relatively similar time frame once the design is amended. Similar to the SSE with the stop additions.

We'll find out soon where the line is going but the spanning the City language certainly hints at larger scope then what was proposed. If they are not implying Eglinton then this could very well be Sheppard they are referring to

 

[BurlOak]

I wish more Scarborough riders were as vocal for their support of lrt. Instead because they waver it becomes a political football.

I don't think there were any complaints from Scarborough (or the rest of Toronto) about LRT - when it was the combined Eglinton-Scarborough LRT.
There were a few grumbles about cost (from the rest of Toronto), which could have been solved by elevating the portion through Goldon Mile.

 

[BurlOak]

Nothing to add that has already been said but as I Scarborough resident I am so disappointed.

Scarborough Town Centre will be getting $4 billion dollar in investment while the rest of Scarborough will be neglected.

I keep going back to this study done by a prof at UTSC:

https://uttri.utoronto.ca/files/2015/03/Choices-for-Scarborough.pdf

Again the best transit plan was Sheppard LRT, Eglington East LRT, Scarborough LRT all integrated with Rapid GO transit on the Markham stouville line. This would help residents get downtown faster and open up huge areas for redevelopment and revitalisation. To top it all off I'm pretty confident that at least two of these lines would have been completed or under construction right now and probably within the 4 billion dollar budget.

I'm honestly trying my best out here to create positive change, emailing both my councillor and MPP but I was wondering does anyone know of any other efforts from locals to rally around preventing this disaster? After speaking with friends and family in the area, most are misinformed but once we got talking they kinda of get it but they are so apathetic...they literally feel like oh were from Scarborough this what politicians do to us.

I think your about 6 years too late.
That was the time (2012 and 2013) that the Ford connected Eglinton-Scarborough LRT was killed, the transit file was taken away from Ford, and both City Council (led by Stintz and DeBaermaker) and the provincial Liberals (led by MTO Minister Murray and subway champion Mitzi Hunter) championed the subway.

 

[Rainforest]

No it won’t. The vast majority of trips in Scarborough are totally within Scarborough, and the vast majority of trips will have nothing to do with the extension. At the end of the day it’s still going to take people an hour to get across the former borough. The single biggest thing we can do to “fix” Scarborough’s transit is invest in the bus network. Faster, more frequent, with BRT in select areas.

Long-range trips are the minority of all trips, but they are the hardest for the riders and their daily routines.

I support improving local services, both in Scarborough and elsewhere in the city. However, I don't share the view that Scarberians only need local service improvements, whereas riders elsewhere in the city have both local service and decent trunk routes.

RER would also do a lot more to fix the transit situation, assuming seamless integration with the rest of the network, as downtown-bound travel is significantly faster than Line 2

RER is out of the picture, until very substantial investments are made in the Union Rail Corridor.

So would the DRL North, as it provides much faster travel times than the SSE for essentially anyone living west of McCowan. And then combine that with BRT along Lawrence or Ellesmere, and we’d have a damn near revolutionary improvement in transit service, bringing a large part of Scarborough within 30 mins, and sometimes within 25 mins, of downtown for the first time

Agreed that for the western part of Scarborough, DRL North is more valuable than SSE.

However:

1. For riders boarding east of McCowan, it would be still a pretty long surface trip to Don Mills.
2. DRL North isn't funded and its timeframe is unknown, while the SRT needs replacement very soon.

 

[Rainforest]

There are plenty of places in Toronto that you can't go downtown inan hour by transit.

Well, nearly all such places are in Scarborough. The Rexdale's situation improved a lot once TYSSE opened, and will i9mprove further once Finch LRT opens.

Outside Scarborough, there might be a small pockets in the Woodbine area that's too far from both the Bloor subway and the Spadina subway, and perhaps another pocket in the Steeles and Don Mills area. That's about it.

At least you didn't say it was because Scarborough has a mall. Anyways if Sheppard lrt was built Scarborough people could have taken it to transfer at agincourt go, or to ideally drl long at Don Mills. If eglinton east LRT was built people could have transfered at Kennedy go and guild wood go stations. As a former resident of Scarborough if I still lived there I would much prefer three lrt lines than one subway stop!

There is a good case for both EE LRT and Sheppard East enhanced transit (light rail or BRT), but those will mostly help people who reside near those routes. While the subway will link to multiple bus routes from the north and north-east of Scarborough.

 

[BurlOak]

Well, nearly all such places are in Scarborough. The Rexdale's situation improved a lot once TYSSE opened, and will i9mprove further once Finch LRT opens.

Outside Scarborough, there might be a small pockets in the Woodbine area that's too far from both the Bloor subway and the Spadina subway, and perhaps another pocket in the Steeles and Don Mills area. That's about it.



There is a good case for both EE LRT and Sheppard East enhanced transit (light rail or BRT), but those will mostly help people who reside near those routes. While the subway will link to multiple bus routes from the north and north-east of Scarborough.

Both TYSSE and UPE helped Rexdale. Eglinton West LRT will also help. That is why I am not sure that Finch was such a priority. But for many, the entire Transit City LRT plan was a priority over any subway, such as DRL.

 

[Rainforest]

Both TYSSE and UPE helped Rexdale. Eglinton West LRT will also help. That is why I am not sure that Finch was such a priority. But for many, the entire Transit City LRT plan was a priority over any subway, such as DRL.

I have no objections to Finch LRT though. It is relatively affordable, and will connect an area that otherwise would be very unlikely to see higher-order transit in the next 30 years.

 

[Rainforest]

Let's start by saying that Scarborough is a massive sub-unit of the city and to say they have the "worst" transit situation is a ridiculous overgeneralization. I would argue that people in the southwestern part of Scarborough from the lake up to Kennedy GO have a variety of reasonable options, especially since LSE service increased.

OK, let's be meticulous, and say "much of Scarborough has worse transit situations that other areas of the city". Certainly some parts of Scarborough are better off than others, but overall, it is further from the city core, and has fewer trunk routes.

Now let's take your further assertion that the SSE will "fix" the transit situation. The Sheppard East LRT would have delivered people to Agincourt GO and brought them downtown. With the money spent on SSE, huge sums could have been spent on accelerating the upgrade of the Stouffville line and on fare convergence.

Requires a massive investment in the Union Rail Corridor, which alone will probably cost more than SSE.

The subway to STC keeps people in Malvern as long on a bus as now, and shaves a handful of minutes off their commute by eliminating a transfer.

One transfer less, and a slightly faster ride from STC to Kennedy; in total, that could be worh as much as 12-15 minutes each way. Not insignificant.

Because there is no stop on Eglinton East to save $, the commute to UTSC gets no shorter.

SSE did not consume funding for Eglinton East. Eglinton East never had dedicated funding.

That said, I see no reason to object if the north-most section of SSE (Scarborough Centre to Sheppard) gets traded for Eglinton East LRT.

Meanwhile the commutes of people currently served by non-STC RT stations gets potentially less convenient.

That's true. Most of changes have some downsides. Not too many riders will be affected though.

 

[Rainforest]

There has to be some balance in determining a reasonable commute time. A person at Victoria Park and Danforth as just as much in Scarborough as someone at Morningside and Sheppard. Is there nowhere in Scarborough so remote that it can be admitted that promising residents of that area a trip downtown in an hour is either technically infeasible short of using helicopters or technically feasible but economically ridiculous?

It is impossible to promise everyone a trip to downtown in an hour. However, the goal should be reducing super-long trips wherever possible.

One hour is a reasonable and easy-to-understand threshold. Of course there is nothing magical in 60 min vs 55 or 65 min, but 60 min is a good ballpark. A day only has 24 hours, minus 8 for work and 8 for sleep. That leaves only 8 hours for commute, plus all chores, eating, and any entertainment. Spending more than 1/4 of the free time on commute alone, kind of sucks. Plus, kindergartens / after-school daycares typically run till 6 pm or less, and many shops close at 7 or 8 pm.

 

[Rainforest]

heres some solutions... find a job closer where you live... find a job where you can work remotely... move closer to a more transit oriented community... build a teleporter.

I guess we should tell everyone to live close to the job, and give up on public transit.

Many reasons make you proposals difficult to follow:
- Not easy to find a new job
- If you rent, contracts typically run for 12 months, and if you own your dwelling, selling it takes months of preparations.
- If multiple family members work or study, it is hard to get a place close to each member's job or school.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Long-range trips are the minority of all trips, but they are the hardest for the riders and their daily routines.

I support improving local services, both in Scarborough and elsewhere in the city. However, I don't share the view that Scarberians only need local service improvements, whereas riders elsewhere in the city have both local service and decent trunk routes.



RER is out of the picture, until very substantial investments are made in the Union Rail Corridor.



Agreed that for the western part of Scarborough, DRL North is more valuable than SSE.

However:

1. For riders boarding east of McCowan, it would be still a pretty long surface trip to Don Mills.
2. DRL North isn't funded and its timeframe is unknown, while the SRT needs replacement very soon.

Well, nearly all such places are in Scarborough. The Rexdale's situation improved a lot once TYSSE opened, and will i9mprove further once Finch LRT opens.

Outside Scarborough, there might be a small pockets in the Woodbine area that's too far from both the Bloor subway and the Spadina subway, and perhaps another pocket in the Steeles and Don Mills area. That's about it.



There is a good case for both EE LRT and Sheppard East enhanced transit (light rail or BRT), but those will mostly help people who reside near those routes. While the subway will link to multiple bus routes from the north and north-east of Scarborough.

Just for reference, most scarborough trips are within scarborough. People east of McCowan will have a long trip even if both subways are built.

 

[Rainforest]

Just for reference, most scarborough trips are within scarborough. People east of McCowan will have a long trip even if both subways are built.

Still long, but shorter than before ..

 

[Rainforest]

This is why blowing $4 billion on one stop for Scarborough is incredibly foolish. There are major transit needs all over the city. It's even more foolish when the extension really won't help people get downtown much faster and will make inter-Scarborough transit much worse.

Well, your ridiculous claim that building a subway can make inter-Scarborough transit worse is truly foolish, given that very few riders take SRT between stations other than Kennedy.