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City Workers Strike 2009

Here's where I get all crazy and agree with the union against several points being made by the general public.

First off my opinion on unions: The problem I have with unions is that they claim to represent workers in general, when in reality they are in essence a private club with the mandate to protect the interests of their worker membership exclusively. There are many such interest groups from corporations to political parties so I don't have much problem with them in theory. However, let's be clear they are in it for themselves, period full stop. There actions may have precedent setting positive impact on other people outside their membership but this is incidental. I have less distaste for public sector unions because here two groups are arguing over proper compensation usually in a sector of the economy that is a monopoly or near monopoly of the government. So a worker has little choice to change his or her employer if they want to stay in the same sector but are unsatisfied with the compensation.

Now to the points being made against the union in this instance. I don't really think that using current economic conditions as an argument for concessions is very strong in a multi-year contract scenerio. While the compensation and benefits that exist for union members may be excessive, even outrageous, the fact is that some idiot agreed to award them these benefits in the past. So I certainly do not blame them or feel angered by their attempting to maintain the status quo even if I wouldn't care if they failed in it.
 
This strike is an inconvenience, but I'm already tired of the childish, whining tone of the people posting comments after news articles and being interviewed on TV. People need to act like adults: take your garbage home with you, don't litter, don't dump it in parks. In short, we need to deal with it. Blaming someone else (Miller, the evil Unions, martian invaders) is not an excuse to act like a selfish jackass.

We're only 18 hours in and most of the city seems to be responding like a bunch of 2-year-olds who don't want to eat their veggies. I'd hate to see what would happen in a real crisis. Hopefully this is just a vocal minority and the silent majority will do the right thing.
 
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Hipster Duck said:
Well, if there's only one thing we can learn from unions it's that there's strength in solidarity. I would love to see us roll up our sleeves and tackle this garbage problem as private citizens - show those unions that they really are worse than useless and we don't have to pander to their whims.

If you have a pickup truck, volunteer to drive your neighbourhood's garbage to city waste transfer stations. If you've got a composting system, tell your neighbours to bring their messy wet garbage over so that only dry, non-biodegradable garbage will accumulate. If you live in a condo, volunteer to take recyclabes from your home-dwelling friends.

When there's a flood, people don't sit around and complain about the rain on blogs, they march down to the soccer field and start sandbagging. This is no different.
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If its like Windsor, CUPE members will harrass people who try to pick up garbage, block contractors and others who try to pick up the waste from businesses, and stand in front of people trying to do things like mow soccer fields and parks (and other unions will pull funding for local sports teams if parents try to mow soccer fields so their kids can play)
 
waterloowarrior said:
If its like Windsor, CUPE members will harrass people who try to pick up garbage, block contractors and others who try to pick up the waste from businesses, and stand in front of people trying to do things like mow soccer fields and parks (and other unions will pull funding for local sports teams if parents try to mow soccer fields so their kids can play)
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that's like kicking someone when they're down or rubbing salt in someone's wounds. such steps as posted above don't need to be taken for the strike to be effective. it's unnecessary and evil.
 
Hipster Duck said:
Well, if there's only one thing we can learn from unions it's that there's strength in solidarity. I would love to see us roll up our sleeves and tackle this garbage problem as private citizens - show those unions that they really are worse than useless and we don't have to pander to their whims.

If you have a pickup truck, volunteer to drive your neighbourhood's garbage to city waste transfer stations. If you've got a composting system, tell your neighbours to bring their messy wet garbage over so that only dry, non-biodegradable garbage will accumulate. If you live in a condo, volunteer to take recyclabes from your home-dwelling friends.

When there's a flood, people don't sit around and complain about the rain on blogs, they march down to the soccer field and start sandbagging. This is no different.
Click to expand...

During the last strike, the union was picketing the transfer stations. The picket was something ridiculous like 1 car per ten minutes. This should be illegal--it's a good thing I'm not a resident of Toronto and won't have to try to drop off garbage. I think that level of incivility on the part of the union would go past my tolerance. At the very least I think I'd just dump the garbage at the picket line. Maybe ferment something really nasty for them to smell all day.
 
PukeGreen said:
This strike is an inconvenience, but I'm already tired of the childish, whining tone of the people posting comments after news articles and being interviewed on TV. People need to act like adults: take your garbage home with you, don't litter, don't dump it in parks. In short, we need to deal with it. Blaming someone else (Miller, the evil Unions, martian invaders) is not an excuse to act like a selfish jackass.
Click to expand...

I'm not really sure what you are referring to. Most people are acting like adults, albeit pissed off. Maybe I missed something, but I have yet to see any childish behavior (excluding she-blimp). Anyways, I don't see how people could help but blame CUPE. Its pretty clear that they are the direct cause of this, and given that Toronto citizens are their technical bosses we have every right to blame the unions. I don't see who else there is to blame.


TrickyRicky said:
Now to the points being made against the union in this instance. I don't really think that using current economic conditions as an argument for concessions is very strong in a multi-year contract scenerio. While the compensation and benefits that exist for union members may be excessive, even outrageous, the fact is that some idiot agreed to award them these benefits in the past. So I certainly do not blame them or feel angered by their attempting to maintain the status quo even if I wouldn't care if they failed in it.
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How isn't it fair? Buggy whip manufacturers used to make good money, obviously that's not the case anymore. I sort of see where you are coming from, but if the City can't afford the status quo it would be irresponsible of them not to force concessions.

TrickyRicky said:
I have less distaste for public sector unions because here two groups are arguing over proper compensation usually in a sector of the economy that is a monopoly or near monopoly of the government. So a worker has little choice to change his or her employer if they want to stay in the same sector but are unsatisfied with the compensation.
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That is pretty uncommon. Most people are ambivalent to private unions, but dislike public unions. For starters, workers do have choices. Most CUPE 416 positions are unskilled and require no professional accreditation. So, a CUPE 416 'park technician' could find employment in landscape design, construction or any other number of unskilled outside jobs. Likewise CUPE librarians could find jobs in information management. Positions like water technician are a bit more specific, but it would hardly be impossible to move to industrial jobs.

More to the point though, unions were formed on the basis that a profit motivated private management class would always subject workers to near feudal conditions. The entire premise of the public sector though is that, in 99% of cases, it does not operate to maximize profit. It is supposed to operate for the public good in fields where the market is deemed to be sub-efficient. Therefore, public sector management has a goal of maximizing public good. If public sector unions exist to challenge management, then they ipso facto challenge the public good.
 
afransen said:
Couldn't she be charged with illegal dumping/littering?
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she could always use the protest excuse. but i think they can nail her for being overweight on a residential street and not using a police escort for a wide load. did anyone see if she had a proper CVOR sticker on her ass?


i know, it's wrong what i said. :eek:
 
Prometheus The Supremo said:
she could always use the protest excuse. but i think they can nail her for being overweight on a residential street and not using a police escort for a wide load. did anyone see if she had a proper CVOR sticker on her ass?


i know, it's wrong what i said. :eek:
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I didn't know you were allowed to commit a crime when you're protesting. I'm upset at the strike, does that I mean I can drive my car through a wall of picketers at speed?

Of course, our police are unionized and thus won't enforce the law out of some sense of solidarity. That should be a firing offense for the officers as well.
 
afransen said:
I didn't know you were allowed to commit a crime when you're protesting. I'm upset at the strike, does that I mean I can drive my car through a wall of picketers at speed?
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sorry, i was probably thinking about artistic expression or something like that.
 
Prometheus The Supremo said:
she could always use the protest excuse. but i think they can nail her for being overweight on a residential street and not using a police escort for a wide load. did anyone see if she had a proper CVOR sticker on her ass?


i know, it's wrong what i said. :eek:
Click to expand...

What does Kelly Clarkson at the MMVAs have to do with this?
 
The people of this city are constantly being screwed over by their public servants be it fire, police, teachers, TTC, CUPE, you name it, they strike when it serves them right.

We need a mayor who will have enough balls to can the two most wasteful unions in the city : CUPE and TTC and privatize them. The level of entitlement, greed and lazyness in these organizations is beyond comprehension. These people have no morales, don't give a shit about their jobs. THey just like the pay and exhoribant benefits. I'm glad Miller is finally standing up to a union. Problem is, it's too little too late. He set precedents by caving into the police and TTC unions, so now CUPE wants its cut.

Every year it's one group or another strikes. We pay huge taxes to support these lazy slobs, and what do we get from it? Services get worse, not better, taxes go up. People get more frustrated and feel that this city is going to the drain.

Private sector while usually more efficient also has it's huge problems. Lots of over paid people doing jack all while the real workers get paid poorly. Just look at the recent eHealth scandal to confirm this.

This my friends is what we call CAPITALISM. Everyone is out for themselves, without any regards for society as a whole.
 
No, that was a crown corporation, like VIA or Toronto Hydro. Meaning they are basically private companies that are owned by the government.
 
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