Mystic Point
Active Member
It's based on Dundas Square model but with no seating - they don't want to encourage vagrants -
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Church-Wellesley Village
- Thread starter dt_toronto_geek
- Start date
It's based on Dundas Square model but with no seating - they don't want to encourage vagrants -
Torontovibe
Senior Member
No seating, are you serious? So it will become a park for dog walkers only? That's absolutely crazy, why build a park if people can't even spend time in it? First they removed the benches on Alexander and now they have taken away the benches here. It's clear that the only time you are welcome on Church Street, is if you have money to spend at a restaurant or bar. That's pretty sad!
ttk77
Senior Member
They don't seem to understand the concept of public squares...
Not even a park for dog walkers with everything covered in concrete/stone brick. The place will be barren.
khris
Senior Member
You can't put seating here. The homeless and drug users will just make it their space, and nobody else will want to go there.
jaborandi
Active Member
There is already a dog park there.
Mystic Point
Active Member
The Viillage could build a beautiful secure wrought iron fence with a padlocked gate like Gramercy Park in Manhattan with keys available only for registered residents - but an anti-Marxist ( or elitist ) concept like this would cause an uproar among the old school socialists living in the neighborhood - CTW would go apoplectic at the suggestion, unless the private park was named in her honor; then she may approve it.
Alistriwen
New Member
I live @ the Verve and the Red Rocket here used to put out these big wooden benches in the summer on the side of the building to give people a nice place to sit outside and enjoy their coffee, tea etc. while it was warm. Problem was, the benches were too big and heavy to really move so they stayed outside all night. We would have homeless people sleeping on it, street kids hanging out and doing whatever they do, the Homewood hookers would sometimes congregate there. Usually, they just looked scary but sometimes they would harass people too. One homeless guy even made one of the benches his permanent home and was there pretty much all day with all of his stuff spread across the bench. It made that corner of my building pretty uncomfortable and it got to the point that my bf at the time and I would always walk in and out of the Western entrance to the building no matter where we were coming from or going to in order to avoid it all. After one summer of this, the building installed huge, bright lights at the corner and eventually the benches were removed and now the area is as it was when I first moved in. Red Rocket puts out lightweight chairs and tables now that they collect inside at night. It's unfortunate but true that benches, for whatever reason, tend to attract 'the wrong kind of people'. It's kind of odd that everyone is talking about how rent is becoming unaffordable despite the plethora of low income housing that still exists in this area.
My friend lives right next to Cawthra park on Monteith and he's told me how bad that park can be at night especially, so I think the goal here is to renovate the park so that someone other than the sketchballs will use it. Yeah, it might not be as popular without places to sit but at least someone other than drug addicts and homeless people will have the opportunity to use it as is the case now. 25 tax payers enjoying the park every day isn't as good as 100 but it's better than 0 using it and the place just being a seedy area that a specific fringe uses...
Also, having worked on Church for quite a while, often past 2:30 am I can attest to the sketchiness mentioned earlier in this thread. Yeah, it's mostly vacuous H&M wearing clones but there's also a lot of bad apples cruising up and down. I see randoms pushing and assaulting each other all the time on Church, even in broad daylight. I almost had to call the police once while sitting in Pizza Pizza b/c I saw two guys assaulting one smaller guy and trying to push him into oncoming traffic. Luckily some good Samaritans on the street intervened but it was hard to watch and it hasn't been the only time. My friend on Monteith sees it a lot too. Part of the problem is that all of St. Jamestown and associated environs has to cross through to get to the subway. The other problem is cracked out, drugged up gay kids who I've also seen fighting and causing trouble. Last Pride I was working on a Patio and watched as some deranged male street kid headbutted a balding female street kid over some dispute they were having then left her in the middle of the street crying... I don't know which village other folks are living in if they have never been exposed to this kind of stuff.
My friend lives right next to Cawthra park on Monteith and he's told me how bad that park can be at night especially, so I think the goal here is to renovate the park so that someone other than the sketchballs will use it. Yeah, it might not be as popular without places to sit but at least someone other than drug addicts and homeless people will have the opportunity to use it as is the case now. 25 tax payers enjoying the park every day isn't as good as 100 but it's better than 0 using it and the place just being a seedy area that a specific fringe uses...
Also, having worked on Church for quite a while, often past 2:30 am I can attest to the sketchiness mentioned earlier in this thread. Yeah, it's mostly vacuous H&M wearing clones but there's also a lot of bad apples cruising up and down. I see randoms pushing and assaulting each other all the time on Church, even in broad daylight. I almost had to call the police once while sitting in Pizza Pizza b/c I saw two guys assaulting one smaller guy and trying to push him into oncoming traffic. Luckily some good Samaritans on the street intervened but it was hard to watch and it hasn't been the only time. My friend on Monteith sees it a lot too. Part of the problem is that all of St. Jamestown and associated environs has to cross through to get to the subway. The other problem is cracked out, drugged up gay kids who I've also seen fighting and causing trouble. Last Pride I was working on a Patio and watched as some deranged male street kid headbutted a balding female street kid over some dispute they were having then left her in the middle of the street crying... I don't know which village other folks are living in if they have never been exposed to this kind of stuff.
Torontovibe
Senior Member
So are you saying people will go to this park and just stand around? Are homeless people not allowed in parks anymore? And you think not putting in benches will keep them out? Maybe they'll just sit and lay on the ground, like they do on every other street in the city. This is just a stupid solution from people who don't use parks. Now everybody will be deprived of enjoying this square, for anything more than a walk through. What a bunch of A-holes!
Mystic Point
Active Member
The park will be lit using a new highly directional LED array technology that basically creates daylight at night. Orlando, Boston, London and Chicago have experimented with this technology in some of their public spaces to some success. Theoretically dealers and vagrants don't like plying their trade in what amounts to broad daylight. Additionally, the park is to be monitored by numerous CCTV cameras. You may not be able to sit in this park but the chances of being mugged or harassed while walking through it may be somewhat reduced.
Mystic Point
Active Member
There are two Villages.
There's the one you see when you live here - as Alistriwin and I do - and there's the Village you see as a visitor or tourist.
Never the twain shall meet.
Mystic Point
Active Member
It's a short term lease that concludes at the end of summer.
Alistriwen
New Member
Where is this new restaurant located? For some reason I couldn't figure out which building I was looking at in the picture.
Graydon
New Member
I haven't looked all the way back to see if this image had been posted previously, however it shows that there are benches being installed within the park - unless it's been redesigned?
http://www.the519.org/My Files/Cathraw Site Plan.jpg
I think the issue with Cawthra Park is that it's so hidden - the 519 blocks views from Church, and Cawthra Square and Monteith aren't busy enough to keep a constant set of 'eyes on the park'. Providing the businesses and residences along Monteith and Cawthra greater visibility to the park could help, however the new design appears to retain the obtrusive wall.
http://www.the519.org/My Files/Cathraw Site Plan.jpg
I think the issue with Cawthra Park is that it's so hidden - the 519 blocks views from Church, and Cawthra Square and Monteith aren't busy enough to keep a constant set of 'eyes on the park'. Providing the businesses and residences along Monteith and Cawthra greater visibility to the park could help, however the new design appears to retain the obtrusive wall.
DTowner
Active Member
Oh, that's too bad. I walked past that place every day for 12 years when I lived at Jarvis & Isabella. I never bought anything from there (Lol) but it was always busy and offered an alternative to the "south Church" café scene.
ttk77
Senior Member
I used to live at Jarvis and Isabella for a while too. The patio BBQs they had in the summer were a nice tough for the neighbourhood.