Canadian patriotism... Or lack of...

[Chinese Jamaican Bloke]

Just scanned through this thread and nobody here mentioned the Americanization of Canada, the selling of Companies like the HBC to American ownership, the lack of Canadian content on Canadian tv networks, and mostly born Canadians that are always complaining about Canada and comparing to the U.S for crap like price differences(due to their expensive, wallet draining habits) while offering no solutions, etc

 

[Second_in_pie]

Just scanned through this thread and nobody here mentioned the Americanization of Canada, the selling of Companies like the HBC to American ownership, the lack of Canadian content on Canadian tv networks, and mostly born Canadians that are always complaining about Canada and comparing to the U.S for crap like price differences(due to their expensive, wallet draining habits) while offering no solutions, etc

This is one of the big reasons I very much think Canada needs to work on letting immigrants into the country. In some thread, there was a figure that something like 60 million people have Canada at the top of their lists? Imagine, if the country could get 100 million people of totally varying cultures, races and religions, we'd no longer be in a position of being the US's whiny little child that needs it's hand held. We'd be able to create our own culture tied to true freedom and acceptance, and would be a powerful country with a colourful history. Heck, they might finally make computer programs so I don't have a red squiggly line after I spell colour the nonamerican way!

When you have two countries, with one having 10 times the population and GDP, and with over 75% of the smaller country's population within 150 km of the bigger one, it's really a no-brainer why the smaller one's seen as unimportant, unpowerful, and has it's culture bled by the other.

After that, there's still a lot of things that the country could do, for things like higher priced goods, green energy, etc. But if you want to solve culture, the country needs to grow in population pronto.

 

[jn_12]

Just scanned through this thread and nobody here mentioned the Americanization of Canada, the selling of Companies like the HBC to American ownership, the lack of Canadian content on Canadian tv networks, and mostly born Canadians that are always complaining about Canada and comparing to the U.S for crap like price differences(due to their expensive, wallet draining habits) while offering no solutions, etc

Mel Hurtig has written extensively on this. I read The Vanishing Country a couple years ago, but it's almost exhausting just how much of Canada really isn't Canadian at all.

 

[cacruden]

^

Countries change, borders change, nothing ever stays the same. Canada is Canada today, yesterday and in the future - but not necessarily the same Canada. I can just see you on your balcony when you get old, dam foreigners - they ruined everything!

 

[cacruden]

I have to disagree with anyone that Canadians are not patriotic (old or new). I was taking a taxi from the airport in San Diego and the driver asked me where I was from, and I said Canada. He then asked how long have you been here and I mention that I have been in the US for 2 years, and he basically told me he had to check. He has run into many people from different countries, he will ask them where they were from and they will mention their current city, and he will then ask them where are you from originally and they will mention their country of birth. But it is not the same with Canadians. He asks Canadians where they are from they will say Canada, and then he will ask them how long they have been here.... answer will often be something like "40 years".

I have several friends that are of asian decent currently (some Canadian born, some not) and I will always be asked to bring "Canadian" stuff whether it is wine, ice wine or anything else that they miss from their country.

I am probably one of the more "americanized" Canadians and yet everyone I know that I worked with in the US, when they were talking about something - and it had a connection to Canada (invention or from) I would let them know. It was actually a little funny

For me, I know I was born in Canada, and although I might not live in Canada, and someday I might have another citizenship, and even if I don't die in Canada - I will still die Canadian, although I might be many things inbetween.

 

[jn_12]

^

Countries change, borders change, nothing ever stays the same. Canada is Canada today, yesterday and in the future - but not necessarily the same Canada. I can just see you on your balcony when you get old, dam foreigners - they ruined everything!

huh? All I said was that Mel Hurtig has written books about the issue and that it's surprising just how much of Canada isn't Canadian. Where did you get this idea that I'm paranoid?

I will say that I think there is way too much foreign ownership in Canada (way more here than any other country in the G8/G20 if I'm not mistaken. But that doesn't mean I think it's a horrible thing. I just think that considering the power that the private sector has in politics and the economy, it's a bit strange that people and companies from other countries have such a strong say in our politics.

and for the record, I'm not anti-American either. If I was, I'd have to hate my Dad as he's born, raised and still lives in the US (and therefore, I'm part American even if I don't have US citizenship by choice).

 

[cacruden]

huh? All I said was that Mel Hurtig has written books about the issue and that it's surprising just how much of Canada isn't Canadian. Where did you get this idea that I'm paranoid?

I will say that I think there is way too much foreign ownership in Canada (way more here than any other country in the G8/G20 if I'm not mistaken. But that doesn't mean I think it's a horrible thing. I just think that considering the power that the private sector has in politics and the economy, it's a bit strange that people and companies from other countries have such a strong say in our politics.

and for the record, I'm not anti-American either. If I was, I'd have to hate my Dad as he's born, raised and still lives in the US (and therefore, I'm part American even if I don't have US citizenship by choice).

For me, I could care a less whether a corporation is Canadian owned, or not. There are reasonably well run, mostly ethical corporations and there are those that are definitely not. In fact Canadians had a bad reputation in South America because of some less than ethical Canadian mining corporations earlier this century. I find too many people view foreign ownership as a zero sum game, I don't, whether we own 100% of one pie or we own 20% of a bigger pie which is 5 times bigger - it does not matter to me. It is all about whether we continue to be competitive in the world and that really relies more on education and being entrepreneurial (which is unfortunately a weakness of ours).

The only contributions to political campaigns should be limited to those that can vote (no corporations, no unions). Corporations will always have access though, the best thing is to make sure it is transparent and non-corrupt.

 

[jn_12]

I think transparency is easier said than done. People have relationships that are external to government and those relationships can have an impact on decisions within government. You can't possibly disclose who all your friends are and submit reports about every discussion you have over dinner with them. I mean, most people in politics are former business people, and they have many connections from their time in the private sector and those don't disappear when they move into government. When those connections are with foreign companies, it is probably a greater cause for concern than if they were simply catering to Canadian businesses. I think you would probably agree about that.

And the most part I agree with you. Given the choice between a smaller all-Canadian economy and a larger mixed bag I'd champion foreign ownership.

 

[js97]

One thing really irked me a few years back. On canada day, during the world cup, I saw more foreign flags than Canadian.

 

[urbandreamer]

^Move out of the GTA, and that would change for sure. Move to Quebec, and you'll never see Canadian flags--only those that never plan on making out with cute French Canadian girls would dare show a maple leaf.

 

[kEiThZ]

India and many such countries are still in big shit. India may be booming, but they have hundreds of millions of people who live on like less than two dollars a day. They still even have a tier system, or ugh, I forget what it's called... ah yes, a cast system.

I am confident that many immigrants do not even come to canada because they love the nation. Sure as hell my parents didn't give a damn about where they fled -canada or switzerland, or some other place... it was a matter of who let them go in order to get out of yugoslavia. I think it's similar like that with other immigrants.

What ignorance in these comments. First off, discrimination on the basis of caste is actually illegal in India. It was one of the things Gandhi campaigned against, in addition to British colonialism. And the government actually has affirmative action policies in place to counter the ill effects of the cast system (can be compared to segregation in the US south). And with economic growth, caste discrimination is increasingly becoming rare, and with the exception of marriage match-making, is generally reserved only for very rural areas.

In broader terms, lifting 300 million people out of poverty in a decade and a half is not some piddling accomplishment. The Indians deserve credit for this. They deeply resent the fact that outsiders rarely focus on this stat (which they accomplished without Chinese style communist repression), or their vast economic growth and fixate on the few street urchins they see on the way to the airport. And their rate of growth is accelerating, not slowing down. Those folks who live on 2 dollars a day are becoming rarer everyday.

As for your other contention. BS. That may have been your family's position, but it wasn't the case for my parents. With my father working as an engineer, our family had a pick of country's to move to. They chose Canada for a variety of reasons. Most immigrants to Canada are not refugees. They are economic migrants who choose to come and settle here. The stats bear that out.

I was born in Britain, moved to Canada, consider myself both a Brit and a Canuck, same queen on the money, more or less same parliamentary, legal and financial systems. I'm patriotic for the entire package.

I've often wondered though if kids born in Canada to immigrants from some of the booming economies like India somehow feel lost. Surely they must feel that has to be more to life and culture than a big house in Brampton and stripmalls. If I was of Indian descent, born in Canada, I'd be getting my university education in Canada and then moving to India to live my culture in a booming economy.

I am one of those Indian kids who grew up in Toronto. And I don't see your point at all. I don't consider myself Indian. I consider myself Canadian with an Indian heritage. Other than my early years outside Canada, the only life I've known is the one here. This is home. And this is also my culture. I appreciate pasta, a good burger and poutine as much as I enjoy biryani, paneer, or samosas. I actually prefer Hollywood to Bollywood (which I'll tolerate on rare occassions). And I'd rather wear a suit to a Sherwani. I am happy the Queen is on my money. And I am happy to learn french. I don't see a conflict in any of this. Why should you? I consider myself blessed to have two cultures. Canada is the place where I can live my culture in a decent economy. Why would I move to India to do that?

 

[drone]

I think the point is that if immigrants are coming here to improve their economic situation, then, likley, they don't really choose canada because they appreciate the culture or land itself. Canada, just "works" best for them to come here. There's nothing wrong with that, I would do the same in a heartbeat.

 

[nfitz]

Oh dear ... so now I've moved to Toronto, I'm supposed to cheer for the Maple Leafs?

 

[urbandreamer]

I'm a Ranger traitor! (In K-W, no one gives a **** about the Leafs, they like their Kitchener Rangers OHL team.)

 

[nfitz]

I'm a Ranger traitor! (In K-W, no one gives a **** about the Leafs, they like their Kitchener Rangers OHL team.)

That wasn't really my unfortunate experience when living in Kitchener. Though I have to say, the Rangers are a far better deal to go watch a game - it's well worth the price of admission!