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Americans flee big cities, have longer commutes

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Census: Americans Are Fleeing Big Cities

By STEPHEN OHLEMACHER, Associated Press Writer Thu Apr 20, 12:15 AM ET

WASHINGTON - Americans are leaving the nation's big cities in search of cheaper homes and open spaces farther out.

Nearly every large metropolitan area had more people move out than move in from 2000 to 2004, with a few exceptions in the South and Southwest, according to a report being released Thursday by the
Census Bureau.

Northeasterners are moving South and West. West Coast residents are moving inland. Midwesterners are chasing better job markets. And just about everywhere, people are escaping to the outer suburbs, also known as exurbs.

"It's a case of middle class flight, a flight for housing affordability," said William Frey, a demographer at the Brookings Institution, a Washington think tank. "But it's not just white middle class flight, it's Hispanics and blacks, too."

The Census Bureau measured domestic migration — people moving within the United States — from 1990 to 2000, and from 2000 to 2004. The report provides the number of people moving into and out of each state and the 25 largest metropolitan areas.

The states that attracted the most new residents: Florida, Arizona and Nevada. The states that lost the most: New York, California and Illinois.

Among the 25 largest metropolitan areas, 18 had more people move out than move in from 2000 to 2004. New York, Los Angeles and Chicago — the three biggest metropolitan areas — lost the most residents to domestic moves. The New York metropolitan area had a net loss of more than 210,000 residents a year from 2000 to 2004.

Richard Florida, a professor of public policy at George Mason University, said smaller, wealthier households are replacing larger families in many big metropolitan areas.

That drives up housing prices even as the population shrinks, chasing away even more members of the middle class.

"Because they are bidding up prices, they are forcing some people out to the exurbs and the fringe," Florida said. "Other people are forced to make moves in response to that. I don't have any sense of this abating."

The metropolitan area that attracted the most new residents was Riverside, Calif., which has been siphoning residents from Los Angeles for years. The Riverside area, which includes San Bernardino and Ontario, had a net gain of 81,000 people a year from 2000 to 2004.

Riverside has grown to become the 13th largest metropolitan area in the nation. It's a short drive to several mountain ranges, and it's within driving distance of the beach. Locally, it is known as the Inland Empire.

"When you look at housing prices in Southern California, along the beaches and coastlines, you're able to obtain a very large home for a much lower price" in Riverside, said Cindy Roth, president and CEO of the Greater Riverside Chambers of Commerce.

Homes in Riverside aren't cheap. The median price — the point at which half cost more and half cost less — was $374,200 in 2005. But they are less expensive than Los Angeles, where the median price was $529,000.

Other areas that attracted a lot of new residents also have relatively inexpensive homes, even if they are not the cheapest in the country. Phoenix, Tampa-St. Petersburg, Fla., Atlanta and Dallas-Fort Worth round out the top five metropolitan areas.

Link to article

Americans commute longer, farther than ever

By Ellen Wulfhorst Thu Apr 20, 4:09 PM ET

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Dave Givens drives 370 miles
to work and back every day and considers his seven-hour commute the best answer to balancing his work with his personal life.

The winner of a nationwide contest to find the commuter with the longest trek, Givens is one of millions of people who are commuting longer and farther than ever before.

Studies show Americans spend more time than ever commuting and for a growing number, getting to work takes more than an hour. In the most recent U.S.
Census Bureau study, 2.8 million people have so-called extreme commutes, topping 90 minutes.

Givens, a 46-year-old electrical engineer, has an extreme commute between home in Mariposa, California, and his job in San Jose. He leaves home before dawn and returns after dark.

His trip landed him first place among almost 3,000 entries in the search for America's longest commute, sponsored by automotive services provider Midas Inc. and announced last week. But as harrowing or tedious as Givens' trip may sound, he says it's the way to keep the home and job he loves.

"I have the balance right now," Givens told Reuters. "I could do similar jobs closer, but not with the work reward and job satisfaction I have. And I could live closer, but I wouldn't have the lifestyle that I desire.

"To me, this is not that long a commute," he added. "It's just something I do to go to work."

SUBURB-TO-SUBURB COMMUTING

Longer commutes frequently involve people who live in one suburb and work in another, said Alan Pisarski, author of "Commuting in America."

Such a pattern tends to begin with companies moving out of a city to a suburb, enticing workers to move to less-expensive outer suburbs, he told Reuters. "People see this as an opportunity to go farther away," he said.

Such a move may provide more affordable housing or better schools. Even high fuel costs -- Givens spends about $185 a week on gasoline -- can pay off in a better quality of life, Pisarski said.

Doreen DeJesus rides a bus from her home in Tobyhanna, Pennsylvania, across New Jersey to her job in Manhattan.

The payoff is a house in the country, she said.

"It's a matter of getting away from the hustle and bustle of the city," said DeJesus, 37. "It's not an easy thing, but most days it's really worth it.

"My boss thinks I'm nuts," she added.

Studies show 7.6 percent of U.S. commuters traveled more than an hour to work in 2004, the most recent data available, up from 6 percent in 1990. The average one-way commute grew by 13 percent to 25.5 minutes between 1990 and 2000.

In 1990, only in New York state did more than 10 percent of workers spend more than an hour to get to work, Pisarski said. Now that situation can be found in New Jersey, Maryland, Illinois and California as well, he said.

CONGESTION WORSENS

Added to long commutes is increased congestion, according to the Texas Transportation Institute's 2005 Urban Mobility Report. Commuters typically spent 47 hours a year in traffic jams, up from 40 hours a decade earlier, the study showed.

"That's the time wasted above and beyond just being able to make the trip," said David Schrank, co-author of the report.

But the trips can be worthwhile, said Kay Phillips who works in Chapel Hill, North Carolina, 164 miles from her home in Granite Falls.

"I really love what I do, so I don't mind," she said.

While Givens spends much of his commute listening to the radio, especially traffic reports, Philips, 52, uses her five-hour commute in her own way -- she prays.

"I say a long prayer starting out every morning for everybody, and it gives you quite a bit of time to do that," she said.
 
Its happening in Toronto also. We like to think we are an urban model, etc. However even Stats Canada has said that Canadians born here in Canada are moving out of Toronto to the exurban areas like Oshawa, etc.

Actually if it was not for immigrants, the Toronto Census Metropolitan area would actually be in major population decline, since Canadians keep moving further and further from the city as they can.

So we are no different then NYC, or Chicago, etc. Just we have immigrants to fill in the void.
 
Being an immigrant is a tough, thankless job. I've been a replacement Torontonian now for 36 years and I still haven't been introduced, socially, to the Canadian born citizen I replaced. You'd think the authorities would have afforded me that one small dignity at least ... but oh, no. The poor sod I replaced is probably trudging the tundra right now, desolate at their banishment, cursing me, and longing to return to the Toronto of 1970 that he remembers.
 
Its happening in Toronto also. We like to think we are an urban model, etc. However even Stats Canada has said that Canadians born here in Canada are moving out of Toronto to the exurban areas like Oshawa, etc.

And a great number of "Canadians born here in Canada" (ie: Regular Canadians) are also moving into Toronto from their hometowns because they enjoy the big city, so what the hell is your point?

Actually if it was not for immigrants, the Toronto Census Metropolitan area would actually be in major population decline, since Canadians keep moving further and further from the city as they can.

Listen whitey, are you saying Immigrants are not as desireable or are somehow deemed not "Canadian" just because they weren't born here? It's not like this is the first time you've insinuated this rubbish in your posts. Let's not bring up that BS that "but oh! I'm a minority too, I'm Italian" cuz seriously, you haven't a clue what it is like to be a true visible minority bub. Watch your terminology, your wording consistantly makes you look like a racist jerk.
 
However even Stats Canada has said that Canadians born here in Canada are moving out of Toronto to the exurban areas like Oshawa, etc.
What an odd thing for someone who lives in the suburbs to complain about.
 
Ed:

I think it's still the imposter - his style felt like a mike-wannabe.

AoD
 
370 miles, 7 hour commute. Give me a break!

I know people who drive from Barrie and the east side of Lake Simcoe to downtown TO everyday and that's bad enough. It doesn't make sense to me. You want the nice big family home out in the middle of nowhere but spend more time in your dangerous polluting vehicle than you do enjoying your country escape. Where is the logic? If you want "the good life", move closer to work, spend more time with your family, get out of the daily 4 hour commute, walk more, eat healthier, the list goes on...
 
Listen whitey, are you saying Immigrants are not as desireable or are somehow deemed not "Canadian" just because they weren't born here? It's not like this is the first time you've insinuated this rubbish in your posts. Let's not bring up that BS that "but oh! I'm a minority too, I'm Italian" cuz seriously, you haven't a clue what it is like to be a true visible minority bub. Watch your terminology, your wording consistantly makes you look like a racist jerk.

I'm not white either, but I didn't get that insinuation at all from his post. I don't think there's anything racist about his statement.

That said, I think a lot of immigrants are actually moving to the suburbs because it's cheaper, and you have some established communities.
 
Its happening in Toronto also. We like to think we are an urban model, etc. However even Stats Canada has said that Canadians born here in Canada are moving out of Toronto to the exurban areas like Oshawa, etc.

Yeah, Toronto is shit, etc in your opinion. Rather than ragging on Toronto try to accept the idea that while the articles did not mention how crummy Toronto is doing, they also failed to mention how badly pretty much all North American cities are doing in this regard. Don't take my word for it, either; go see it for your self.

Even if city populations grow, suburban populations will continue to grow at a faster rate until it become untenable for any one of a number of reasons. So long as the cost of living in suburbia is so reasonable, so long as farmland and green space is made available so cheaply and without penalty, so long as rates of municipal taxes remain artificially low in suburbia, so long as commuting by car is so deeply supported and valued, populations will continue to grow there.
 
Even if city populations grow, suburban populations will continue to grow at a faster rate until it become untenable for any one of a number of reasons. So long as the cost of living in suburbia is so reasonable, so long as farmland and green space is made available so cheaply and without penalty, so long as rates of municipal taxes remain artificially low in suburbia, so long as commuting by car is so deeply supported and valued, populations will continue to grow there.

Well said Bizorky. I would also add that while cities are still suffering from continued suburban flight, Toronto itself has not seen a decline in population. In fact, Toronto continues to see its population rise. It is a city with a well established and ever maturing urban development industry. It can claim not just one large scale project, but many large scale developments, in addition to the individual condos being built plus all the smaller infill that does tend to go unnoticed. It has strong education institutions which continue to grow and has been attracting more research institutions as well.

Suburbs will always exist. Period. They are not an entity that can be defeated. Period. They have largely dominated the 20th century and the first part of the 21st century. This is not a reflection of Toronto's failings. There are plenty of legitamit criticisms you can launch against Toronto, but blaming the city for the 905 and its sprawling disaster is not one of them.

And you might be dissapointed to know that unless some drastic economic shift takes place, business will continue to grow in the suburbs, people will continue to make Markham popular, and yes, a few more businesses are going to leave Toronto for the office parks of the 905. But so are another tens of thousands of people going to move into Toronto each year so you know what, Im really not too worried that Toronto is going to go through a period of decline anytime soon.
 
You guys get to upset over nothing. I did not say anything racists.

The point is that if Toronto was relying on Canadians who have lived here for decades, etc, we would see the population decline in this metro region. Just like how the article stated that AMERICANS are moving out of the metro regions of Chicago, NYC, etc.

You guys can complain it sounds racists, etc. But it is not. It is just a fact, that people who where born in Canada just like American's who where born in the USA are moving out.

Theres nothing racists like that. Infact STATS Canada had an article last year that talked about how the Toronto CMA actually had a population decline if we did not have immigrants coming in from other countries. And the reason was because Canadians keep moving out of established areas of the metro region to further out suburbs, etc.
Theres nothing racists in that.
 
Miketoronto, for the jillionth time, stop improperly pluralizing "racist" or I'll start again with offending the board cops by posting ad hominem jpgs and wavs and whatnot...
 
So....what group is being for what problem?

First an off topic comment. Is it just me or are some of the posts as of late getting a little strange?

Back on topic. How is this even relevant? Canadas population growth is based on immigration. Not only should that not be surprising, but it essentially a national policy for our continued growth.

Perhaps you can explain your point more clearly mike because I really dont see what you are trying to suggest.
 
The article stated at major American metro regions are losing population if you count just American population and not newcomers to the country. So basically if there was no newcomers major metro regions in the USA would be in pop decline due to everyone moving to smaller metro regions in the south, etc.

All I said was that the same applies to Toronto. our domestic population is moving further and further out, just like the American's. And it is only immigration that is keeping our metro region growing. But the established Canadian's keep moving further and further out, just like how the American article stated the same for American metro regions.

Also you guys made the view that "CANADIAN" means white. I never said it was just whites. Canadian can mean anyone born here.

You guys are just looking for something to pick on my for.
 

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