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adma
Guest
Miketoronto, if you're so concerned about "the established Canadian's keep moving further and further out", I recommend you get this...maybe there's certain sorts of "established Canadian's" that aren't worth keeping...
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doady
Guest
Actually if it was not for immigrants, the Toronto Census Metropolitan area would actually be in major population decline, since Canadians keep moving further and further from the city as they can.
Yes there many people from Toronto CMA moving to Calgary, Vancouver, etc., but it does mean people are actually moving away from the city. They are just moving to other cities
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Antiloop33rpm
Guest
The article stated at major American metro regions are losing population if you count just American population and not newcomers to the country.
But the established Canadian's keep moving further and further out, just like how the American article stated the same for American metro regions.
Which article are you talking about? If it was in the original articles posted than please point it out too me because from what I can the article made no reference to immigrants moving further out. It simply said Americans, which as far as Im concerned, means anyone who is living in the United States. It seems that the point about immigration was one you added to the discussion yourself, which, as I said before, I still dont understand what you are trying to say by bringing up that point.
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bizorky
Guest
^Ah! That's because you were not reading between the lines! Clearly, this article speaks to some of us in unique ways, providing information that may (or may not) be there.
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TdotTrickyRicky
Guest
I actually don't get the Miketoronto bashing in this thread. His original statement is factually correct and mention of established Canadians implies nothing about race. The fact is that Toronto is a net loser in the inter-regional and inter-provincial population dance. Many Toronto neighbourhoods particularly in the old city are actually still experiencing population declines overall. I suspect new residential construction will start to moderate these trends however the fact remains that many of the neighbourhoods we live in are less populated then in the past and still shedding people.
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bizorky
Guest
^So is the overall population of the city of Toronto declining? Is the population of downtown Toronto declining? Are some neighbourhoods experiencing increases in population as others decline?
I guess I am confused. When I looked at the data from the last census, there was what looked to be a population increase in the city. As a matter of fact, there were population increases pretty much all over southern Ontario. Like I said, I guess I am confused,
I guess I am confused. When I looked at the data from the last census, there was what looked to be a population increase in the city. As a matter of fact, there were population increases pretty much all over southern Ontario. Like I said, I guess I am confused,
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adma
Guest
...but the population increase in the city is more modest than that in the "evil" 905. I think that's at issue here--in net terms, so-called urban "badness" is winning out over urban "goodness".
Personally, I'm just thankful that all those Italian family friends of miketoronto's moving to Wood-a-bridge did that little bit more to save Toronto from the prospect of a Mayor Nunziata....
Personally, I'm just thankful that all those Italian family friends of miketoronto's moving to Wood-a-bridge did that little bit more to save Toronto from the prospect of a Mayor Nunziata....
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cdl42
Guest
No surprise that downtown nabes are seeing population declines, as an area gentrifies and higher-class residents move in the population drops.
Better to look at factors like changes in average income and vacancy rates than population numbers.
Better to look at factors like changes in average income and vacancy rates than population numbers.
A
Antiloop33rpm
Guest
This thread seems to be a good example of many forumers concerns that there is too much of a tendency for a topics to divert and head madly off in all directions. I would suggest that anyone who wants to continue the discussion on demographic shifts and immigration and its affect on population growth should go to this thread. Then hopefully the discussion here can return to its original topic, increased commute times and continued suburban flight.
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Canuck 36
Guest
Lay off Mike, he didn't say anything factually incorrect. His wording could have been more PC, but I understood his mesage and could deciper no racist undertones.
Then again I am a whitey.
Then again I am a whitey.
S
scarberiankhatru
Guest
"Givens, a 46-year-old electrical engineer, has an extreme commute between home in Mariposa, California, and his job in San Jose. He leaves home before dawn and returns after dark."
:rollin
Mariposa is only 100 miles from San Jose but he has to go over 150 miles out of his way each way because there's no highway or direct main road. What a douchebag - he should just buy a helicopter.
:rollin
Mariposa is only 100 miles from San Jose but he has to go over 150 miles out of his way each way because there's no highway or direct main road. What a douchebag - he should just buy a helicopter.
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Antiloop33rpm
Guest
What I wonder is will the GTA see itself at a point in the not too distant future (say 10 or 15 years) where cities such as Peterborough, Port Hope, Cobourg, Barrie and others, find themselves serving as commuter suburbs to the same extent Newmarket, Aurora and Brampton are today? I remember reading an article a few years back at how K-W/Cambridge was finding itself with more and more people moving there and commuting to Toronto and wondering why someone would want to do that commute everyday. Now, that doesnt seem that extreme with commutes setting new records for distance.
One plus is that this trend may increase the demand for, and eventually lead to, more frequent rail service, or in some cases, all new rail service to surrounding cities and municipalities.
One plus is that this trend may increase the demand for, and eventually lead to, more frequent rail service, or in some cases, all new rail service to surrounding cities and municipalities.
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unimaginative2
Guest
I don't think very many people from K-W or Cambridge commute to Downtown Toronto every day, and if they do, it's only for a short while. On the other hand, many people work in Mississauga office parks and live in Waterloo Region, which is a somewhat more reasonable commute. I'm sure the same goes for people from Simcoe County who probably commute mostly to southern York Region office parks.
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samsonyuen
Guest
Article: "Suburbs sold as hedge against disaster"
From: www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs...9048863851
__________________________
Suburbs sold as hedge against disaster
Some downtown firms taking back-up office space in 905
`Hot seats' offer protection from terrorists or catastrophe
Apr. 22, 2006. 09:46 AM
DAVID BRUSER
BUSINESS REPORTER
The suburbs, known for box stores, sprawling subdivisions and strip malls, are now being sold as a geographic hedge against a terrorist attack or other office-crippling disaster.
Mississauga-based Fusepoint, along with Q9 Networks, is already known as a major player in the business of helping firms run their information-technology infrastructures.
But Fusepoint is now offering what it calls a "hot seat," or remote office for rent, from an 85,000-square-foot headquarters on Millcreek Dr., west of Erin Mills Parkway. The premise: businesses in Toronto's heavily populated downtown are arguably more at risk from various threats, and the 905 area offers relative safety and security.
"I think that's common logic," said George Kerns, Fusepoint's president and chief executive officer. "If somebody was going to do something, a premeditated (act) that none of us wants to think about, it's most likely to happen in a densely populated city centre."
The building, once owned by the Toronto Dominion Bank, is outfitted with bullet-proof glass near the reception desk and has boulders on the lawn to slow any vehicles barrelling in.
"If you're in the middle of a crisis, you're looking for a dependable space," Kerns said. "Our building has a lot of security protection. Buying a former bank building was a good thing to do."
The 25-seat area, built a few months ago, offers desks, phones, computers, Ethernet connections and printer — enough for a skeleton crew to carry out a company's basic, critical functions.
Backing up data is only half of a disaster-recovery plan, Kerns said.
"The other part of the equation (that) I think people forgot about: What about my people? If, for some reason, there was some kind of dirty bomb set off downtown, and people could not (be) downtown for I don't know how many days, what would they do?"
Some might try to work from home. Kerns's scenario, however, could include widespread utility failures. But Fusepoint can operate on backup power, if need be.
The sideline business is available only to current Fusepoint customers with IT infrastructure already fully or partly managed at the Mississauga site.
"Now that we have this facility in place, part of our sales process is to introduce that" to customers, Kerns said, but added, "This is not hotel property where you can call up and make a reservation. We see this as complementary to other things we're doing for people."
A customer can reserve a seat for a "nominal fee" of less than $100 a month. If a disaster strikes, the seat becomes available to the renter for several hundred dollars a day. Richard Barnowski, president of Equity Transfer Services Inc. on Adelaide St. W. in Toronto, said his company rents five of the 25 seats at Fusepoint.
"We do back-office operations for the securities industry. We need an alternative site outside the downtown core if there was a flood on this floor, if there was a fire, if there was a blackout," he said. "Our clients require shareholder lists, information about their shareholder base. We're under a tight time frame."
Barnowski added that many of his competitors operate within a six-block radius, and most have offices in different cities that can take on more work if a downtown Toronto office goes down. Barnowski does not.
"If I'm down and they're up, I'm in jeopardy," he said.
Q9 Networks chief executive Osama Arafat said his firm's Brampton office has rented out seats since the 2003 blackout on a dedicated basis, as opposed to a "shared risk" model, which he said could leave a hot-seat renter without an office space during a desperate time.
"We don't believe in overselling. The premise (behind the shared-risk model) is the disaster is going to affect only one company at the time. But it doesn't always tend to be that way."
But Fusepoint said the company also rents a few more expensive dedicated seats to a few firms. Such seats can be used by one renter and no one else. Fusepoint also said it can ramp up operations to meet an increased demand for shared hot seats with fully equipped mobile trailers.
From: www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs...9048863851
__________________________
Suburbs sold as hedge against disaster
Some downtown firms taking back-up office space in 905
`Hot seats' offer protection from terrorists or catastrophe
Apr. 22, 2006. 09:46 AM
DAVID BRUSER
BUSINESS REPORTER
The suburbs, known for box stores, sprawling subdivisions and strip malls, are now being sold as a geographic hedge against a terrorist attack or other office-crippling disaster.
Mississauga-based Fusepoint, along with Q9 Networks, is already known as a major player in the business of helping firms run their information-technology infrastructures.
But Fusepoint is now offering what it calls a "hot seat," or remote office for rent, from an 85,000-square-foot headquarters on Millcreek Dr., west of Erin Mills Parkway. The premise: businesses in Toronto's heavily populated downtown are arguably more at risk from various threats, and the 905 area offers relative safety and security.
"I think that's common logic," said George Kerns, Fusepoint's president and chief executive officer. "If somebody was going to do something, a premeditated (act) that none of us wants to think about, it's most likely to happen in a densely populated city centre."
The building, once owned by the Toronto Dominion Bank, is outfitted with bullet-proof glass near the reception desk and has boulders on the lawn to slow any vehicles barrelling in.
"If you're in the middle of a crisis, you're looking for a dependable space," Kerns said. "Our building has a lot of security protection. Buying a former bank building was a good thing to do."
The 25-seat area, built a few months ago, offers desks, phones, computers, Ethernet connections and printer — enough for a skeleton crew to carry out a company's basic, critical functions.
Backing up data is only half of a disaster-recovery plan, Kerns said.
"The other part of the equation (that) I think people forgot about: What about my people? If, for some reason, there was some kind of dirty bomb set off downtown, and people could not (be) downtown for I don't know how many days, what would they do?"
Some might try to work from home. Kerns's scenario, however, could include widespread utility failures. But Fusepoint can operate on backup power, if need be.
The sideline business is available only to current Fusepoint customers with IT infrastructure already fully or partly managed at the Mississauga site.
"Now that we have this facility in place, part of our sales process is to introduce that" to customers, Kerns said, but added, "This is not hotel property where you can call up and make a reservation. We see this as complementary to other things we're doing for people."
A customer can reserve a seat for a "nominal fee" of less than $100 a month. If a disaster strikes, the seat becomes available to the renter for several hundred dollars a day. Richard Barnowski, president of Equity Transfer Services Inc. on Adelaide St. W. in Toronto, said his company rents five of the 25 seats at Fusepoint.
"We do back-office operations for the securities industry. We need an alternative site outside the downtown core if there was a flood on this floor, if there was a fire, if there was a blackout," he said. "Our clients require shareholder lists, information about their shareholder base. We're under a tight time frame."
Barnowski added that many of his competitors operate within a six-block radius, and most have offices in different cities that can take on more work if a downtown Toronto office goes down. Barnowski does not.
"If I'm down and they're up, I'm in jeopardy," he said.
Q9 Networks chief executive Osama Arafat said his firm's Brampton office has rented out seats since the 2003 blackout on a dedicated basis, as opposed to a "shared risk" model, which he said could leave a hot-seat renter without an office space during a desperate time.
"We don't believe in overselling. The premise (behind the shared-risk model) is the disaster is going to affect only one company at the time. But it doesn't always tend to be that way."
But Fusepoint said the company also rents a few more expensive dedicated seats to a few firms. Such seats can be used by one renter and no one else. Fusepoint also said it can ramp up operations to meet an increased demand for shared hot seats with fully equipped mobile trailers.
T
TdotTrickyRicky
Guest
bizorky, the city of Toronto (metro toronto) is experiencing an overall population increase, but a net inter-regional / inter-provincial population loss. This means that our population increase is fueled by foreign immigration. The population increase is occuring in the suburban metro boroughs where birth rates are high and incomes are actually falling. In the old city of Toronto there are a lot of new residential units coming on stream but the birth rate is falling and average incomes are rising which guarantees that the average number of residence per dwelling is also falling. I suspect the 2006 census will reveal that the downtown population has stabilized after decades of decline; however, I suspect the wealth increase and drop in children has offset more of the gains due to contruction then one would think. On these types of forums people tend to vastly overestimate population numbers and trends based on construction cranes (aka all those shiny towers). But if you think about it the very trends that lead to construction in an area also lead to de-population of the existing housing stock.