News   Jul 10, 2024
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AMC Yonge & Dundas opens at Toronto Life Square

So I finally checked out AMC tonight and give it an A.

The amount of escalators going up and down was the joke of the night... as it seemed they were never ending. The crowd control was great, as the line did not stretch to the doors as it did previous days. I was ready to pay for my movie, showed my student ID and they let me in free, (Ryerson students are free for the weekend) while all my friends had to pay. Free popcorn was pretty good too.

I love the interior of the AMC. They did a great job with it. Despite the escalators being the joke of the night, they really added to the experience. It was pretty fun.

I noticed outside food and drink was allowed. Im not sure if it will continue being allowed (seeing as there is a food court one floor below and a starbucks in the lobby, which is now open) or if its just because its the grand opening.

Overall it was a great experience. I prefer it over Scotiabank theatre.
 
It's fortunate that your guillibility is so ingrained and intrinsic, for the corporations anyways. You should research the etymology of evolution, your argument might actually be compelling. This evolution is Devolution, you however seem to have an obsolesence fetish. I hope for you sake you develop some critical thought and look beyond the mechanics of consumption.

My god it's painful to listen to you rattle on, please leave this forum. I like to be accepting, and understand that everyone has their own standpoint, but your argument strategy is to attack anyone who doesn't share your same pretentious views. This thread is for news and information about Toronto Life Square, not for your long-winded complaints about digital projection.

I don't like being overly rude, but your head's so far up your ass I'm amazed you're able to make it through each day without imploding from your massive sense of self-satisfaction. To everyone else, just stop responding to eustache's arrogant arguments. We've already covered all the film vs. digital bases; film is still ideally superior, but digital is already realistically matching film's quality and will only continue to grow as the dominant and superior medium. Technology is replaced and continues to advance. Deal with it.

Sorry for the rant, but I've been continuously following the TLS progress, and this obnoxious debate is making it difficult to enjoy the thread.
 

Outside

AMC is in fact adding a movie poster board above their sign on Dundas.

I know its a long shot at best but I always thought it would be cool to make each of those signs LED and have the movie trailer playing with the show times on a ticker below.
 
i went again yesterday to catch cloverfield and saw that the new LED board at the entrance was working. it looks great imo. beautiful color and there are no borders to it. however, i honestly thought that they would be showing the showtimes for the movies on that thing, not ads.
 
My god it's painful to listen to you rattle on, please leave this forum. I like to be accepting, and understand that everyone has their own standpoint, but your argument strategy is to attack anyone who doesn't share your same pretentious views. This thread is for news and information about Toronto Life Square, not for your long-winded complaints about digital projection.

I don't like being overly rude, but your head's so far up your ass I'm amazed you're able to make it through each day without imploding from your massive sense of self-satisfaction. To everyone else, just stop responding to eustache's arrogant arguments. We've already covered all the film vs. digital bases; film is still ideally superior, but digital is already realistically matching film's quality and will only continue to grow as the dominant and superior medium. Technology is replaced and continues to advance. Deal with it.

Sorry for the rant, but I've been continuously following the TLS progress, and this obnoxious debate is making it difficult to enjoy the thread.


Although I agree that eustache can be over zealous, I think people are perhaps missing the point. Too many of the members on this thread seem to only give amc @ younge dundas and TLS the benefit of the doubt and unlimited enthusiasm.

You may be tired of the digital vs film debate but I'd like to throw my two cents in. I work at a film post production facility and most the of the criticism in the Torontoist article cited are acurate. The question is why is amc selling 4K projection when the films are rendered at 2K, this is a significant difference in quality especially at $13 a ticket. Technology always evolves, sometimes for the better, the emergence of digital projection though is influenced more by studios and theatres saving money and not a superior viewing experience. I repect other views stating they found digital projection satisfactory, but as someone involved in the everday mechanics of film production I see the quality which is lost with any digital encoding of film. In today's age of ipod flicks this may already be a moot point though.
 
Hi Cris.

At the risk of sounding ancient... I believe that "warm" mediums like 35/70mm film projection are largely "undiscovered" experiences by the digital generation.

Younger folks are drawn to everything digital... a kind of perfect-ness: perfect sound, apparently perfect resolution, perfect technologies of every kind.... more perfect tomorrow.

Filmmaking is an art form that occasionally engaged the intellectual mind (auteurism etc.), but the North Amercian model has usually been about escapism... disappear into a fantasy world and let the warm, passive celluloid wash over you.

The "cold" digital experience is physiologically different... in music the example would be digital aural perfection versus "vinyl" warmth.... I remember in the early sonic digital days that Panasonic created a technology called MASH which has designed to make Compact Discs sound "warmer"... like vinyl without the hiccups.

I believe this "digital" coldness began with the invention of the television ... and analogue television broadcasting... because the viewer had to transpose those dots to create a picture, it became (physiologically) an "active" medium, whereas film remained a "passive" medium. All real resolution, no work for the viewer other than processing the scriptwriter's plot.

Television was supposed to kill the cinemas, but it didn't. The reverse happened.

What's my point? Not sure. Except that now "digital" interaction is normal for the young-uns and it doesn't suprise me a bit that they are engaged by digital projection.

Call me crazy, but if there isn't any significant generation loss due to duplication... an optical print experience has a larger "entertainment" impact on the viewer than advertised digital perfection.
 

Outside

AMC is in fact adding a movie poster board above their sign on Dundas.


I know its a long shot at best but I always thought it would be cool to make each of those signs LED and have the movie trailer playing with the show times on a ticker below.

That's exactly what I thought the rendering implied with those little screens, but I guess it wouldn't be as effective as static movie titles and showtimes.
 
Although I agree that eustache can be over zealous, I think people are perhaps missing the point. Too many of the members on this thread seem to only give amc @ younge dundas and TLS the benefit of the doubt and unlimited enthusiasm.

You may be tired of the digital vs film debate but I'd like to throw my two cents in. I work at a film post production facility and most the of the criticism in the Torontoist article cited are acurate. The question is why is amc selling 4K projection when the films are rendered at 2K, this is a significant difference in quality especially at $13 a ticket. Technology always evolves, sometimes for the better, the emergence of digital projection though is influenced more by studios and theatres saving money and not a superior viewing experience. I repect other views stating they found digital projection satisfactory, but as someone involved in the everday mechanics of film production I see the quality which is lost with any digital encoding of film. In today's age of ipod flicks this may already be a moot point though.

That's a fair point, and to be honest I still haven't watched a film projected in digital at TLS yet. I'm pretty picky when it comes to image and sound quality, my main complaint was with eustache him (or her) self in presenting arguments. I know I've seen many films before with lots of scratches and dirt, and some that are perfect. However digital is in its (relative) infancy, the technology is still more expensive than film (including the costs to convert for digital) and as digital movie quality continues to improve, we'll be seeing pictures with quality superior to film and lower ticket prices.

I think most people now just like to hold on to previous formats for nostalgia, and force themselves to not give digital technologies a chance. Hell, I still like to throw on a vinyl or take some shots on an old film camera, but ultimately the results with their digital equivalents are now superior. Digital film projection will get there too.
 
That's a fair point, and to be honest I still haven't watched a film projected in digital at TLS yet. I'm pretty picky when it comes to image and sound quality, my main complaint was with eustache him (or her) self in presenting arguments. I know I've seen many films before with lots of scratches and dirt, and some that are perfect. However digital is in its (relative) infancy, the technology is still more expensive than film (including the costs to convert for digital) and as digital movie quality continues to improve, we'll be seeing pictures with quality superior to film and lower ticket prices.

I think most people now just like to hold on to previous formats for nostalgia, and force themselves to not give digital technologies a chance. Hell, I still like to throw on a vinyl or take some shots on an old film camera, but ultimately the results with their digital equivalents are now superior. Digital film projection will get there too.

It is not an issue of nostalgia, the best digital projection can ever hope for is to match the quality of film, it will never reach this point. It is the chemical process which allows film to perform and excell. All digital can do is appoximate/imitate this standard. If it aint broke don't fix it
 
It is not an issue of nostalgia, the best digital projection can ever hope for is to match the quality of film, it will never reach this point. It is the chemical process which allows film to perform and excell. All digital can do is appoximate/imitate this standard. If it aint broke don't fix it

But it is broken, so we are fixing it.
 
It is not an issue of nostalgia, the best digital projection can ever hope for is to match the quality of film, it will never reach this point. It is the chemical process which allows film to perform and excell. All digital can do is appoximate/imitate this standard. If it aint broke don't fix it

It's already hard to spot the difference between high quality digital and film. It won't be long before digital is, even if it's only ever on par, as good looking to the human eye. You won't be able to tell the difference unless perhaps you stuck your face several inches from the screen. Now you may say if it ain't broke, don't fix it, however there's more to it than just the image quality. Storage, image degradation, dirt and scratches, and ease of distribution are all areas which digital will and already excels over film.

It's been beaten to death here already, and I'm going against my previous wishes (stop with the film vs. digital debate, get back to TLS) but digital will, and is surpassing film as the overall better medium. Yes, film is essentially as the eye sees it, but digital can already match the picture quality as we see it beyond inspecting it with a magnifying glass. As for contrast and colour issues, where film may seem to still excel, it's just a matter of the post-processing and fine tuning in the studio to match that.

To be on topic, I walked by TLS today and while yes it is an ugly building, the whole thing is lookin' good. I love how that massive dark void has been wonderfully filled now, and I plan on checking out a movie soon. Once it warms up I'll bust out the trusty tripod and take some shots. My summer goal is to photo-document as much as the city as possible, expect lots of shots once it's warm and the foliage is in bloom.
 
Observations on film art and Film Art
by Kristin Thompson and David Bordwell

But obtaining images for illustrations is a very different thing from watching a movie projected digitally in a theater. The images from a strip of real film have a distinctive look to them. They convey a sense of life. It’s a subtle thing, but the minute grains that make up the blacks, whites, and colors in the frames shimmer slightly from frame to frame. (That’s why a freeze frame makes an image look suddenly grainy. There’s no play of the particles from frame to frame to overlap and create a richness.) Digital projection throws visual information on the screen far faster, eliminating the shimmer and creating instead a fixed-looking image.
So we’re not in a great hurry to see 35mm projection disappear, and we watch the growth of digital exhibition with both interest and some trepidation

http://www.davidbordwell.net/blog/?p=1419

This is a variable, films shot on film and projected on 35mm have hundreds of these. Digital has none. It is fixed, no variables. If one thinks anything can can fixed in post like grain or contrast, digital projection does not have the ability to capture or display the ratio of film. The film the Counterfitters playing now is a good example of this. Rarely have I seen more grain added to a film, it looks artificial, sterile, and false.
 
.

It's been beaten to death here already, and I'm going against my previous wishes (stop with the film vs. digital debate, get back to TLS) but digital will, and is surpassing film as the overall better medium. Yes, film is essentially as the eye sees it, but digital can already match the picture quality as we see it beyond inspecting it with a magnifying glass.

Torontoist
As reported by SneakPeek.ca, AMC claims that its "SXRD 4K digital projectors from Sony will provide images that are four times the resolution of HDTV." The key word in that sentence is "will." The fact is that although the projectors have that capability, few, if any, movies are yet rendered or distributed in 4k format. The current standard for digital theatrical presentation is 2k, meaning a resolution of 2048 pixels by 1080 pixels. For comparison, a Blu-Ray DVD shown on a high-definition television is 1920 x 1080; the iMac on which this article is being typed is running at 1680 x 1050. This works great for a twenty-inch monitor, but the screens in the two largest auditoriums at the new AMC are three storeys tall and about twice as wide. 35mm film, on the other hand, works out to the equivalent of 4850 x 4850, still better than 4k's 4096 x 2160. Film also has superior colour range and contrast ratio.

How is this a match exactly????
 
regarding film vs. digital.

Most people are not the mega nerds you people (you know who you are) are about this issue. The average movie goer (the vast majority of those who see films) doesn't know or care much about the projector as long as it works, blue is blue, red is red, etc. A good enough picture is good enough.

Do you think the average patron of the AMC is walking out thinking "that picture just isn't as warm as in other theaters. I don't think I'll be coming back." No.

It's like people listening to mp3s. They sound horrible, but most people don't care at all, especially with the convince that comes with them.
 
Final Words

Although my posts can be construed as self righteous and confrontational, this tone is due to a perceived apathy and ignorance on this digital vs. film by other users. Although most have never seen digital projection or were even aware of its existence until Amc arrived they are quick to unconditionally jump on this bandwagon and dismiss those extolling the virtues of film as revisionists or hopelessly nostalgic.

I am hardly a Luddite; I'm a filmmaker by day and regularly work with digital equipment and media, mostly out of necessity/circumstance. Nor am I for an autocracy of one medium (film) over all others. My vitriol, offensive as it may be to some is one born of passion, for the medium as an art form. This is what motivates my outlook, nothing else.

The consequences of a shift to digital projection are greater than many here understand or care for. It was a decision hatched in the last 2 or 3 years by the 3 biggest theatrical exhibitors including Amc in the US and the 5 big major studios. It's was only an endeavor of greed nothing else, hard as it is for some to accept it had nothing to do with improving the viewing experience or any benefit to cinema itself. Studios want to save on printing costs, savings which will never be passed on to the consumer and lay the groundwork for the exhibition of 3D films which they think the next big thing, theatres want to expand programming options. Wrestling, sports, Hannah Montana concerts. They want to reduce their reliance on films. In this future film content will exist but it will be restricted to 10 or so blockbusters. Anything out of this category will be marginalized into near extinction. Think this is an absurd doomsday scenario look at Spain now. Most cinemas there are dying, people only rip/download films, theatres only survive by holding videogame tournaments on the big screen. You can google this.

Cinema has been under threat for a long time now; it may already be headed towards obsolescence. People don't care anymore about the quality or experience and are content to watch bootlegs, downloads, or ipods. The art form cannot survive in this kind of vacuum. The notion of auteurism and cinephelia is already an anachronism to most, when up until the 70's it was still the norm. The communal atmosphere and immersion in the work is obsolete, patience for anything which questions or challenges passé. Ever since video was introduced the desire or preference for seeing film in its intended form has waned. People go to see only because of exclusivity, if they're available on dvd no one bothers. If Kubrick's 2001 was shown in a remastered 70mm print in a theatre this week how many of you would bother to go? It's already out on dvd why bother?

I don't give a rats ass how this effects 10 000 BC or Hollywood and Multiplexes. The problem is what happens at the top trickles down to the margins. Last year saw a record for box office receipts, not attendance though but the revenues for Indies fell for the fifth or sixth year in a row. In the worst case scenario films, and I use this term liberally, like 10 000 BC will still be made and exist the same can't be said for anything masquerading as art. The music industry imploded, for every song sold on itunes 25 are not but musicians can at least survive through touring. If the theatrical experience disappears the same or any alternatives do not exist for filmmakers. Film takes lots of money to make. Equipment, crew, cast, locations, post production etc.... are all bloody expensive. People will not pay for content on the web, once you distribute films online most will just copy and steal it, just like with music. It is not even an issue of quality like theatre experience vs. the web download but an issue of these films even being made.

Any savings that are created by eliminating printing costs through digital projection will never trickle down to smaller filmmakers and films. This is an arrangement reserved for the biggest studios and multiplexes; independent film is not on their radar. The reliability of digital projectors hangs by a thread, most last 3 to 4 years, are extremely costly to repair and like computers are obsolete before they're even made. There is documented evidence on this; it is not a leap of my imagination. The cost of the 4K Sony projector is 150 000. A great film projector will set you back 40 000 by comparison, can last up to 30 years, is obsolete proof, and cheap and easy to repair. For comparison look at how long a tube amp lasts compared to any Japanese electronics or appliances? How long did your last ipod live. The studios/big 3 exhibitors created a hedge fund in the billions to pay for the conversion to digital, a cost which will be passed on to the consumer eventually. Wait until you see the ticket prices for the 3D junk coming in a few years. Smaller theatres/chains will never see a penny of this money, either will not or cannot convert to this inferior format, so as a consequence this move will never have any effect on independent/art film, quite the contrary it will force them in a corner.

I can't comprehend the stubbornness of those embracing digital, as it hasn't an iota of effect on their viewing experience. Oh I forgot those dirty, scratched, decaying prints. I've been seeing films in first run theatres over an 8 year period here; I’ve only seen one film which was visibly poor. Besides films are lucky if they last for more than a month in today's multiplexes, unless it's the new AMC which with its lineup of films looks like it's going to be competing with Blockbuster. Some of the "tech heads" here fail to realize a fundamental truism, even if digital projection completely takes over 70 to 80 per cent of distributed films are still shot on film, digital can only and I repeat only approximate this standard, it can't surpass its depth and beauty. This is clearly laid out in the cited Torontoist article posted here. If you read this carefully you will understand this. My "arrogance" on this subject puts me in good company, among other filmmakers. Scorsese, Spielberg, the Coen Bros, Gus Van Sant etc... Have all voiced their rejection of the digital projection medium.

The studios/amc will reap the benefits of what they sow in the end, their extinction. Their last vestige against piracy was the physicality of film, it's pretty hard to stead film rolls and do a telecine transfer of a film. Only poor copies on a camcorder could be made. All you have to do now is steal the hard drive or copy the data and presto you have a perfect copy of Horton Hears a Who, which incidentally is already available. The claim these files are encoded for protection but please. Security may hold up in Kansas which prevents the 16 year old usher from ripping off his employer of a copy of the film, but what do you think will happen when these digital prints circulate in China or Taiwan.

Nuff Said
Adios
 

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