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2022/24 Russian-Ukrainian War

Russians are about to find out why America doesn't have universal healthcare....
This report from last month reminded me of your post.

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The last slide above is especially useful for all those Americans who claim that the USA is just handing cash to Ukraine...that it should be spent in the USA...It is you morons!
 
Zelenskyy has a point here. The US and its allies shoot down missiles approaching Israel, but won't do the same against missiles over Ukraine. It's not a huge escalation if NATO missiles fired from either NATO borders or Ukraine intercept missiles over Ukraine-held territory.

 
The West is really helping Russia do some spring cleaning and getting rid of all their aging military hardware. The losses are kind of mind boggling, especially when you consider what they are fighting for.
The rebuilding is well underway.

 
The rebuilding is well underway.


That's why you need to wreck that recent investment in industrial capacity.

AoD
 
It ain’t going to happen. It’s time for Ukraine to start negotiating to save itself from being destroyed and absorbed by Russia. The West has shown now they are not a real force. They will not stand up for fellow emerging democracies and in fact that democracy as a model of governance is weak and dying. Tragic but true. Once Trump wins in November, this war dies and Ukraine surrenders and gets to keep whatever rump Russia allows it to keep.

I see no path and neither does NATO to an Ukraine victory. It’s a losing game and Russia has shown that might makes right.
 
It ain’t going to happen. It’s time for Ukraine to start negotiating to save itself from being destroyed and absorbed by Russia. The West has shown now they are not a real force. They will not stand up for fellow emerging democracies and in fact that democracy as a model of governance is weak and dying. Tragic but true. Once Trump wins in November, this war dies and Ukraine surrenders and gets to keep whatever rump Russia allows it to keep.

I see no path and neither does NATO to an Ukraine victory. It’s a losing game and Russia has shown that might makes right.

I think it may be that after 2.5 years progress is in question

At first, Ukraine was given the tools to defend itself in the hopes it would succeed.

Now, Ukraine is on the defensive and the west doesn't want to get involved in another Vietnam type of situation.

Mind you.. US or NATO troops in Ukraine may ignite WW3 which is another reason the west is steering clear.
 
I agree. So where was the hindsight to get Ukraine to negotiate while they were ahead in the fall of 2022. Not it seems like NATO and the U.S. good intentions have led Ukraine down the serpent path to be forced to give up territory to have a cease fire with its neighbour.
 
It ain’t going to happen. It’s time for Ukraine to start negotiating to save itself from being destroyed and absorbed by Russia. The West has shown now they are not a real force. They will not stand up for fellow emerging democracies and in fact that democracy as a model of governance is weak and dying. Tragic but true. Once Trump wins in November, this war dies and Ukraine surrenders and gets to keep whatever rump Russia allows it to keep.

I see no path and neither does NATO to an Ukraine victory. It’s a losing game and Russia has shown that might makes right.
Russia couldn't hold Ukraine, especially after this war.
 
Mind you.. US or NATO troops in Ukraine may ignite WW3 which is another reason the west is steering clear.

Can we stop with this WWIII fearmongering. Normalizing this fear simply helps the Russians. Next up they'll be threatening WWIII over the Baltics and you'll be calling to simply give Putin everything he wants.

Nothing in Ukraine threatens the Russian homeland. Hard to make a case that they have reason to escalate to nuclear attacks on the West. It's like arguing that the US would go nuclear with the Soviets over losing Vietnam or that the Soviets would do the same over losing Afghanistan.
 
I agree. So where was the hindsight to get Ukraine to negotiate while they were ahead in the fall of 2022. Not it seems like NATO and the U.S. good intentions have led Ukraine down the serpent path to be forced to give up territory to have a cease fire with its neighbour.

No ceasefire with Russia is worth the effort for the Ukrainians. All it does is let the Russians rearm. They learned their lesson with Crimea. Apparently a lot of the West has not.

Let's stop with this idea that Russia is some invincible superpower. It's a country with the economy of Italy trying to occupy and control a country with the population of Canada and land mass of Texas. They are taking casualties at a rate that is possibly two orders of magnitude than anything the West did in Iraq and Afghanistan. The idea that this is sustainable for them is a stretch. It will break them. It's just a matter of time.

One might argue the Ukrainians will eventually run out of steam. Unfortunately for them, they have no choice. And they've seen what the Russians do to occupied areas. They are no less motivated to surrender their citizens to Russian hands than we would be.
 
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The rebuilding is well underway.


Meh. That's not really "rebuilding". They've lost most of their best troops and most experienced leaders. Their huge Cold War stock pile is being whittled down. Sure, things like artillery shells are easy to ramp. Aircraft? Ships? Not so much.

They are not going to be coming out of this war more capable as a country. What we need to be worried about is that this is quickly becoming a multi-headed beast opposed to liberal democracy and capitalism that is ready to kill and wreak havoc at will.
 
That’s exactly what it’s becoming. It’s being isolated by the west but being funded by the eastern rogue states of Iran and China. Russia will be happy to do Chinas dirty work. China takes West money in exchange for cheap goods then they send money and weapons to Russia to disturb the West.

When Western leaders get out of their comfort zone they will need to learn that the freedom that’s enjoyed in the west was hard earned and not to be taken for granted.
 
When Western leaders get out of their comfort zone they will need to learn that the freedom that’s enjoyed in the west was hard earned and not to be taken for granted.

Leaders follow populations. And as we see with so many discussions in Canada and even on this forum, there's a lot of people that take democracy and our shared prosperity for granted and simply think we can maintain all of it without really contributing to collective deterrence and security.
 
They are taking casualties at a rate that is possibly two orders of magnitude than anything the West did in Iraq and Afghanistan. The idea that this is sustainable for them is a stretch. It will break them. It's just a matter of time.
Agreed. They have the depth of cannon fodder population and don't seem to mind consuming it.
 
No ceasefire with Russia is worth the effort for the Ukrainians. All it does is let the Russians rearm. They learned their lesson with Crimea. Apparently a lot of the West has not.

Let's stop with this idea that Russia is some invincible superpower. It's a country with the economy of Italy trying to occupy and control a country with the population of Canada and land mass of Texas. They are taking casualties at a rate that is possibly two orders of magnitude than anything the West did in Iraq and Afghanistan. The idea that this is sustainable for them is a stretch. It will break them. It's just a matter of time.

One might argue the Ukrainians will eventually run out of steam. Unfortunately for them, they have no choice. And they've seen what the Russians do to occupied areas. They are no less motivated to surrender their citizens to Russian hands than we would be.
If this conflict has revealed anything at all, it's that Russia is a paper tiger, and this myth that was built up over the decades that they're some fearsome power that's not to be trifled with should be dispelled immediately. They've never been weaker than they are now (except in 1917) and are getting weaker by the day. This is the first opportunity in more than a hundred years to finally relegate a consistently adversarial, aggressive state to a non-factor. How can some of you not see this, and suggest Ukraine and we (the West) should simply give up because it's not worth it?? That kind of thinking is borderline insane at worst, and feeble at best, playing right into Putin's hands.

Amusing sidenote: the GDP of Texas alone is larger than Russia 🤣
 

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